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>> at the end of the '90s, the jig is starting to be up for the networks. basically, quality migrates to cable. >> "oz" comes on in '97. and it's set in this fictional penitentiary. wow. what a strange show that was. >> in "oz," sometimes the things you can't touch are more real than the things you can. for instance, here, hatred, fear, loneliness are more real to me than a shank and a soul. >> it was jaw-droppingly violent. it was a men's prison. it probably should be. but you know, it kind of announces the idea that hbo is going to get serious about doing scripted dramas. >> it's finished. i...

Private hours, you know, after midnight in the shank of the evening over an adult beverage that john mccain would say i made a big mistake and, rather, you didn't catch me, it's a good thing but you didn't catch me in it. if he didn't like what you reported you knew it. his straight talk included giving you straight talk when he thought you were wrong. >> frank, what about that? do you have memories of that as well. >> oh, my gosh, yes. something i would like to react to as what we've been hearing, you assume the narrative of the time around you. so john mccain's notion of being a maverick, of...

Big ratings. movie coming out. bim, bam, boom. >> "the larry sanders show" was very unique in that it was very deadpan. and really groundbreaking in its day. >> i think it made people really go, that's the level of work you may be able to do on a cable network. >> "oz" coming in '97 and it's set in a fictional penitentiary. fear, loneliness are more real to me than a shank and a soul. >> it was jaw-droppingly

Movie coming out. bim, bam, boom. >> "the larry sanders show" was very unique in that it was very deadpan. and really groundbreaking in its day. >> i think it made people really go, that's the level of work you may be able to do on a cable network. >> "oz" comes on in '97. and it's set in this fictional penitentiary. wow. what a strange show that was. >> in "oz," sometimes the things you can't touch are more real than the things you can. for instance, fear, hate red, loneliness, are more real to me than a shank and a soul. >> it was jaw-droppingly violent. it was a men's prison. it probably sh...

Basically, quality migrates to cable. >> "oz" comes on in '97. and it's set in this fictional penitentiary. wow. what a strange show that was. >> in "oz," sometimes the things you can't touch are more real than the things you can. for instance, fear, hatred, loneliness are more real to me than a shank and a soul. >> it was jaw-droppingly violent. it was a men's prison. it probably should be. but, you know, it kind of announces the idea that hbo is going to get very serious about doing scripted dramas. >> it's finished! it's over! >> but hbo really in my mind comes to its own in 1999 with "the ...