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Is a kind of like standard that that you can meet in normal reporting. and i feel like we go out of our way to be fair. like, i feel like like to all parties in any story, in any dispute that we're reporting on. and i suppose, you know, the media are seen as pretty polarising at the moment have accused we're all accused of highlighting divisions and sort of finding the extremes. and i just wondered what what this american life's role in that? i mean, do you do you bring people together? do you think would you push them further apart? i mean, it's funny, like i don't think about it that way, i ...

And we think like. that seems bad. but then we go in and then like, honestly, like we follow the facts where they go. i can see that i totally understand that i totally buy into that everything at the moment feels more frenetic in a sense this, you know, terms like culture, wars thrown around. you know, you had a programme recently about women who was pro—life and a conservative christian, but she's become pro—choice, and it feels like quite a natural story for this american life. and ijust wondered whether you do a story in the reverse, you know, a person moving from a liberal position to...

Together, either, it's it'sjust like we're trying to say here's what this person is, here's the picture you might have of them in your head. and here's who they really are. then it's like often that's the more radical thing to be doing. like, here's the way that this here's the way this argument is, is talked about. but here's what's really here's the reality on the ground. here's here's what's really happening. you know, there was a point early in the trump administration where. where one of the things that was talked about all the time was how immigrants were coming in and stealing jobs. tha...

And when she started the story, she thought like, oh, maybe this is a wrongful conviction. and then as time went on, she became very uncertain about what it was like maybe it wasn't a wrongful conviction. and honestly, as she was doing the reporting, she would kind of flip back and forth. and we're just like, well, let's put that in the show as you kind of like, decide one way or another suspect one thing and another. coming up this season on serial, i think that there are other people involved, like maybe i think maybe he was setup. i think he was set up somehow. clearly, you could tell. some...

Ira glass. what were you setting out to do back then? i mean, what i wanted was a show that would be like first and foremost, we thought of it as an entertainment, but we also thought it would be it would bejournalism, but it would be unashamedly out for fun. but it is in an unembarrassed way. we wanted it to be something that would like. kind of. i don't know, just grab you at the beginning and just like be out to entertain and entertain in the biggest way where we want to just be both like funny and you'd get caught up in like people and feelings and and and ideas, you know? and so i mean, t...