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It throws it more into the spotlight and is going to connect to that trump tower meeting. all of these things is a thread that goes through all of this. i think today was an important part. >> shepard: you said and you have said repeatedly that what mueller is doing is sending out cards. warnings to people. if you lie to us, you'll be indicted for lying to us. are there others within the trump family even who might have reason for concern regarding this matter at hand? >> i think if an objective observer was to look at it, yes. we know from what mr. cohen said, there's others in the trump orga...

Mentioned, the president indicated the meeting appeared to be on but he indicated he could change his mind. >> i probably will be meeting with president putin. we haven't terminated that meeting. i was thinking about it. we haven't. they'd like to have it. i think it's a very good time to have the meeting. i'm getting a full report on the plane as to what happened with respect to that, and that will determine what i'm going to be doing. >> the president said there that he thought it was a very good time to have the meeting but politically he was under pressure to not have the meeting because o...

For next year for 2018 they've already said they don't know if they're going to get this money that they're owed that helps low income people pay for their out-of-pocket spending. they don't know whether the trump administration's going to enforce the individual mandate that requires most people to have insurance. those two things together cause between a 20% and 30% rate increase alone. that's just the uncertainty part. >> so m.j., what is the next move here, because we've heard two i think kind of die metrically opposed things. one is let's repeal it. we don't need to have a plan. let's repe...

At the end of the day, we've got to figure out a way to bring down premiums. >> neil: all right. what we're dealing with though is sort of like the battle between winning over moderates, as you know, and that ticks off conservatives when that's done. then whatever is done to win over guys like you ticks off the moderates and you have all of these cynics saying there's no way this will happen. if it doesn't and you're confident that it will -- you can come to an agreement and produce an alternative to obamacare, what would you do? just move past this, shelf it and go on to tax cuts or what? >> ...