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That is not opposition research. that is very close to espionage, and the thing you should do is not have to the meeting. the thing you should do is get in touch with the fbi. and the fact that donald trump jr. didn't, the fact that the senior-most people in the campaign were involved in that meeting, is an alarming fact. >> yeah. mark, why is -- listen, why are we sitting here pretending that this is normal? that there might be some other excuse than what there actually was, that the president -- what the president said that he actually believes that anybody -- no one believes that. this is c...

That donald trump jr. might be naive to this. okay. we understand that. we could perhaps -- >> the "new york post" is right about donald trump jr. is an idiot in their editorial if he doesn't know? >> look, that's the "new york post's" decision to call him that. however, when you look at the other folks involved in the meeting, specifically paul manafort who's been in politics a lot longer than any of this on this panel, he should have known in the very, very at least. he didn't say anything. >> jennifer, what's your take? why do we have to pretend there's any other excuse than actually what h...