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Permanently. so we need to have those open and honest debates. i hope that those democrats more in the middle are willing to engage. i think it's really important if we really do want to find a solution. >> harris: do you know of any democrats that are willing to engage? >> yes. there are number of them. they have been engaged in numerous side conversations. we've had a lot of different working groups throughout this process and all of us tend to agree on a number of the same points. variations of course on those points. but that's when we have to start moving towards the middle. i think the p...

Can, indeed, keep the focus on policy. if the president decides he wants side conversations about the media. >> garrett, what do you know about how involved president trump is now in terms of arm twisting as relates to the health care bill. is he working the phones? is he keeping a distance? what do we know? >> at the moment, or at least over the last couple days, the white house said the president is more focused on g-20. he's been involved as a sounding board. more conservative members like rand paul can go to with their complaints when they feel like they are not heard by senate leadership....

Under the ongoing federal investigation they don't feel is necessary for a public display at this point. so unlikely is the answer. now we certainly see democrats who want to see jeff sessions testify at one of the number of committees that might have some jurisdiction. want to put questions to him, especially because his confirmation hearing is where things went off the rails a bit for the attorney general politically. where he had said he had no contact with russians while he was a surrogate for the president's campaign back in 2016. it turns out he had two meetings with the russian ambassad...

So as his capital goes down and his vision gets wider historically, everybody else's vision is getting narrower to that -- not even to election day in '14, but of the primary day. >> so with all that said, leigh, you look at the deal, as michael said, the president came out big, not only does he want taxes to go up on the wealthy, but he wants stimulus spending. he wants the power to raise the debt ceiling. where is the middle ground when you look at this? who blinks on these questions of taxes? >> well, i mean, everyone's doubling down and waiting for the other side to blink first. and that's...