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That may really be almost a side performance. the big issue here is what may rank as one of the greatest crimes in american history, which is the russian federation's attempt to interfere in the presidential election. and on that, i think the filing today you referenced in the flynn sentencing raises a question of why did general flynn lie when he could have told the truth about his conversation with kislyak? it's as if he was hiding something much deeper, much more expansive than that. so, i think at the end of the day we'll know what we know when we know it. but even these campaign finance m...

I want to play sound from both of them, and i want to ask you who you believe, but more importantly why. >> i never directed him to do anything wrong. whatever he did, he did on his own. he's a lawyer. >> he was trying to hide what you were doing, correct? >> correct. >> and he knew it was wrong? >> of course. >> whom do you believe? >> well, i have my own opinions. i think it's really hard to say. i mean, the president has certainly had incentives and he's changed his story several times. but more to the point is i think the special counsel -- we have every indication that the campaign financ...