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The short term. most people went away from that over time realizing that's not such a good idea. what's surprising is there is a basic point that if you borrow, you have to repay. the congressional budget office really an important document, of course, a kind of nerdy one, says that right now this year we'll spend 1.4% of our national income on servicing the public debt. by 2023, before krugman says we have a problem, they estimate it will be 3.3%. in other words, two percentage points more just to pay interest on the debt. where is that going to come from? it's squeezing things we care about....

Back to 2007. in other words, they looked at 2009, they said the housing market's collapsed, the market for consumer goods has collapsed. we just need to boost back where we were. it was kind of unimaginative to say that let's just to back as opposed to saying that didn't work, we need something longer term, more serious, something that's going to take us out of these cycles. the truth is, they haven't recreated the bubble, at least yet. it didn't work. they couldn't recreate it. young people are saying, we don't want to get into debt the same way anymore. people don't want to spend that way. ...

Now, you can say it would be desirable to do something in the next ten years what will happen later on, but what's the desire to do this? where's the evidence we have to do something, that we have to be focused on this as opposed to the clear and present problem of high unemployment? you know, where is this coming from? bowles and simpson said -- i mean, i like this because they gave us a date. they said two years we'll have a fiscal crisis unless we deal with this. that was two years ago. >> you've made some projections yourself in the past that have been wrong. >> that's the point. if you wa...

Ahead. it's uncon shenable not to plan ahead. for my 4-year-old child, for my 9-year-old child. at some point, we're going to have to tell beneficiaries whether you cut it off at 50 or earlier or whether it's 55 or earlier. we're going to have to say, the rules of the game are going to change for medicare recipients at some point. i don't think we can wait. you say you didn't say wait until 2025, but i don't think we can wait another decade before we start addressing medicare. >> jeffrey sachs, does ben bernanke support what he's saying? >> the funny thing is we all went to school together, ha...

>> i think he's fully -- >> i think he's going to run. >> that's the point. this, to me, just by him saying i'm not ruling it out is something we've never heard from jeb bush before. he has, for a decade, in some form or another, been recruited by some in the party. big donors, whoever you want to say. raise your hand, be the leader of this party. he's always attacked back for reasons, maybe they were personal. this time he's saying no, i'm in. i want to have the conversation. he's using the book. what i think is interesting, he's not shying away going, no, no, no, i want to talk about my book...