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Intelligence since 1993 and they have done an awful lot of very dark and brutal things. >> president carter said recently that omar suleiman was a guy he had been dealing with directly for quite a number of years. this leads me to suspect that he may be pulling all the strings anyway in egypt. so are we really in a situation where it's just the same kind of thing and a different face? >> he's certainly not a new face to anybody who's followed things closely behind the scenes in egypt. and put it this way, he's not what i would call change you can believe in. he's certainly not a democrat, smal...

This leads me to suspect that he may be pulling all the strings anyway in egypt. so are we really in a situation where it's just the same kind of thing and a different face? >> he's certainly not a new face to anybody who's followed things closely behind the scenes in egypt. and put it this way, he's not what i would call change you can believe in. he's certainly not a democrat, small d democrat. and critics say he's been very closely associated with the torture of detainees in kind of terrible situations in dungeons in the intelligence agency that he runs. >> but you have said it's a bit like...

Anyway in egypt. so are we really in a situation where it's just the same kind of thing and a different face? >> he's certainly not a new face to anybody who's followed things closely behind the scenes in egypt. and put it this way, he's not what i would call change you can believe in. he's certainly not a democrat, small d democrat. and critics say he's been very closely associated with the torture of detainees in kind of terrible situations in dungeons in the intelligence agency that he runs. >> but you have said it's a bit like replacing dick cheney with donald rumsfeld. >> exactly. it's no...

Behind them ready to take over the government of egypt and then all of a sudden we would have a much less stable government maybe spreading terror just in the neighborhood of israel and other key u.s. ally? so as much as the u.s. wants to stand up for human rights and the basic freedoms as you heard the president outline a moment ago in the youtube exchange, they have to be very careful about what comes next here, because as the president also noted, egypt has been a very e strong ally to the united states for many years, not just this administration but many administrations before this one, d...

Democratic leader. and the u.s. is obviously very uncomfortable with that. so they have to go through this through a number of layers, carol. >> stick with me, ed. developments are happening all the time. reuters reporting there is smoke coming out of of the ruling party headquarters in cairo. we don't know much more than that, but that is disturbing. president mubarak, i don't know where he's going to give his speech from, but we understand some of his family including his son has now fled the country for a time. they're in londzen. and isn't one of the worries, ed, that if mubarak is chased ...