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Substantial way in matters relating to the investigation over collusion. so mueller, for whatever reason, has really signalled that flynn has provided information that could affect the president. >> neil: what is interesting in the discussion of michael cohen and drawing the president into this moscow stuff and building a trump tower there and talking to the russians, and then the separate issue of paying off these two women is that the inference was that campaign funds were being used for that, which would be a big problem. but who is to say campaign funds were used? the president insists it'...

Interference in a presidential campaign. has that link been made through any of what we've seen in the last few days? >> absolutely. if you look at the filing by mueller and read between the lines because there is a bit of vagueness here and it's deliberate vagueness but clearly what mueller is pointing us to is that cohen cooperated on the core issue of mueller's inquiry. that's mueller's language. the core part of his inquiry. what is that? it's russian collusion. and what do we read in the filing? we see that cohen is talking about overtures from russia as early as 2015. understand that mue...

So the four corners of the mueller filing do not lay the groundwork -- yet -- for evidence of crime with regard to russia. what they do is point the way to where mueller is going with this. so, for example, from a counterintelligence perspective, if russians stood to gain hundreds of millions of dollars through their relationship with trump on a project in moscow, and understand that vladimir putin has to personally approve that, then rest assured they would be going out of their way to assist trump in his campaign to assist him. and similarly, if he understands that he stands to gain hundreds...

Groundwork -- yet -- for evidence of crime with regard to russia. what they do is point the way to where mueller is going with this. so, for example, from a counterintelligence perspective, if russians stood to gain hundreds of millions of dollars through their relationship with trump on a project in moscow, and understand that vladimir putin has to personally approve that, then rest assured they would be going out of their way to assist trump in his campaign to assist him. and similarly, if he understands that he stands to gain hundreds of millions of dollars if this works, then he needs to b...

On the moscow tower project. so mueller is squarely in the russian collusion business right now. and i think the white house needs to buckle up because they're in for a wild ride on this issue. >> let me take it to the rest of the table here. are there republicans, are there trump defenders, folks in trump's camp who are looking at what happened friday and looking at this situation differently as a result of it? >> i think, without question, i don't know that we know exactly who they are. marco rubio, the senator from florida. i wouldn't say he's a trump intimate but has largely, you know, sto...