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That he will not allow the debt ceiling to be raised without certain conditions being applied to it. that's the kind of talk that we've never heard around this issue before. do you feel somehow that the institution will take control of all that thinking and the institution of congress will somehow get this done, despite all the new noises we're now hearing about the debt ceiling? >> i don't know. obviously. but i think that much of what we're hearing is a negotiating position. it is a threat. lots of negotiations begin with threats. i'll never sign this. i'll never do that. that's a good openi...

Certain conditions being applied to it. that's the kind of talk that we've never heard around this issue before. do you feel somehow that the institution will take control of all that thinking and the institution of congress will somehow get this done, despite all the new noises we're now hearing about the debt ceiling? >> i don't know. obviously. but i think that much of what we're hearing is a negotiating position. it is a threat. lots of negotiations begin with threats. i'll never sign this. i'll never do that. that's a good opening move in a soigz. -- in a negotiation, because people like ...

Ceiling to be raised without certain conditions being applied to it. that's the kind of talk that we've never heard around this issue before. do you feel somehow that the institution will take control of all that thinking and the institution of congress will somehow get this done, despite all the new noises we're now hearing about the debt ceiling? >> i don't know. obviously. but i think that much of what we're hearing is a negotiating position. it is a threat. lots of negotiations begin with threats. i'll never sign this. i'll never do that. that's a good opening move in a soigz. -- in a nego...

Senate. they are saying we don't want the debt ceiling raised which is going to be an invitation to spend more or reduce less. it looks like they are trying to put the lid on backdoor pressure on keeping the spending down -- they could if they want, they could stop business here by doing that. >> i talked to a couple of them. what they are trying to get to is ways in which we can reduce spending and ultimately, create procedures which make it impossible for the congress and the president to continue this spending binge. therefore, continually have to raise the debt ceiling. we reduced federal ...

To do that, for the first time according to your plan, you'd eliminate the off budget distinction, and, explain what that means to folks. >> right now we don't really, medicare and social security and a lot of items are not dealt with. we really in congress only deal with about a trillion dollars worth of spending, sounds like a lot of money but those things other than the accounts you are talking about and this would mean that we'd have to have a plan to bring all of that spending down -- >> social security, medicare, medicaid, bringing them, more than 50% of the budget, goes to those three i...