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Making the u.s. less competitive and it's even under the epa studies and doing nothing for any future climate. >> what about china? we've heard one of the presidential candidates, donald trump hear about how they are devaluing currency and that the next president needs to put a stop to that by perhaps imposing a tariff on their goods. >> tariffs are disaster. the way -- the principal way that human beings have gotten out of extreme poverty is free trade. because then we have the division of trade. china can concentrate on what they do best. we concentrate on what we do best. and we exchange. i...

Argument like that in north korea? >> there's more transparency in pakistan. not to say there's a lot of transparency in pakistan. nobody's seen these nukes. we've seen explosions that we assume are nukes. we seem to think they are nukes. we don't know how many they have or where they are or who has control over them. remember here, kim jong-il's single biggest project was to acquire the bomb. he believed the survival of his regime was dependent on north korea being a nuclear nation so nobody, including the united states, could challenge that rule. he achieved that. no matter what we give them...