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So this will effect on ordinary germans. and german politicians know that and they know that they have to maintain and sort of cater to that sort of angry public opinion. and that has shownist in france as well and will do in spain, and to an extent here in great britain. but so you've got very angry publics. you also have amongst leader who basically clearly know that this is part of state craft, part of the other way around diplomacy, part of everyday government to government life, spying happens all the time, so they know that. but what also is happening right now, there seems to be a defic...

It's about a state craft. what's important are the negotiations so you can't be playing for time. they haven't started yet, but we'll see an important meeting between john kerry and the iranian foreign minister. it will be the highest meeting in 30 years in u.s.-iranian relations. bill: but you were about to say the politics in iran are something we need to understand. >> among some segments of the iranian population the u.s. is very popular. in other segments it's not popular. the u.s. has said we keep military option on the table. and we imposed sanctions. if you are sitting in iran and anot...

I'm sure you do, that the president doesn't believe in the legitimacy of military force as an instrument of state craft. he is supported by the liberal wing of the democratic party. here he pulls that sword out, which is necessary, basically recognizing that he's been operating foreign policy on a false and flawed premise. they feel deserted as much as conservatives feel deserted for lack of a strong stance. the lib walls would like apiecement. >> peter, joining us. a michigan father fighting for his legal rights to bear arms while picking up his daughter. >> i'm there to pick up my daughter...

Losses. he has to come back to chemical weapons. we've only seen the beginning of this. >> chris? >> i agree with mark. but let's make it simple. if assad can use chemical weapons he will win this war. he will win it if it means depopulating large parts of his country by terrorizing people with chemical weapons. very much the way -- you remember when saddam used chemical weapons in 1988 and three years later he didn't even have to use them and he drove hundreds of thousands of kurds out of kurdis tan and nobody stood in his way. the real question for the state craft of this, do you want to all...

He has to come back to chemical weapons. we've only seen the beginning of this. >> chris? >> i agree with mark. but let's make it simple. if assad can use chemical weapons he will win this war. he will win it if it means depopulating large parts of his country by terrorizing people with chemical weapons. very much the way -- you remember when saddam used chemical weapons in 1988 and three years later he didn't even have to use them and he drove hundreds of thousands of kurds out of kurdis tan and nobody stood in his way. the real question for the state craft of this, do you want to allow basha...