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Under oath. there's a stenographer taking down every word he says and no lawyer, no defense lawyer allowed in that room. can you imagine the carnage if you unleash mueller or one of his attorneys on trump with no lawyer there. >> david jolly, a friend who is a lifelong new yorker and known donald trump for decades always says the following reminder to me. this guy was on the payroll of the network in this building for 14 years. he is used to being kind of the entertainer figure in whatever room he walks into. he is a physically large and imposing guy. he's always been able to make people laugh...

Ultimately -- >> does he have any leverage? >> minimal. >> they've got the client everybody wants. >> right. i think giuliani knows the things he's demanding are outrageous. you'll agree to certain concessions maybe more for the president of the united states. he's way out of line for what he's demanding, time limits. >> in obstruction. >> i wonder why. if they don't agree, mueller i believe will crop a subpoena. you end up in the courts and trump is going to argue executive privilege. it didn't work for nixon in the '70s. it's not going to work for donald trump. it's nor national security and...

It didn't work for bill clinton in the '90s. it's not going to work for donald trump. it's nor national security and military secrets. nightmare scenario for trump is if he loses in the courts and has to go in a grand jury, he's under oath. there's a stenographer taking down every word he says and no lawyer, no defense lawyer allowed in that room. can you imagine the carnage if you unleash mueller or one of his attorneys on trump with no lawyer there. >> david jolly, a friend who is a lifelong new yorker and known donald trump for decades always says the following reminder to me. this guy was ...