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And they would be the tat. depending -- >> uv lost track. >> shepard: i don't know where the egg and the chicken were. at any rate, the next move is the chinese move, is that right? >> the ball is in their court. if i were them, i would be happy to standstill. it's clear that president trump is taking political pain from the farm states right now. >> shepard: oh, yeah. >> and so if i was them, i would be letting the u.s. stew for a bit before doing anything. >> shepard: they don't have to do anything. stewing might serve their purposes. not indefinitely. >> to be clear, they're suffering as we...

Distinguished fellow of criminal justice, and emily jane fox with us in new york, whose new book is about the trump family. good evening and welcome to you all. emily, because you are most steeped on a day-to-day basis with all things cohen and trump, i'm going to begin with you. why did this come out tonight? what else do you know about this and other recordings? >> what's interesting about the timing tonight is on friday night we knew about what was on the recording, the recording to rudy giuliani. and my sources in cohen world were already telling me at that point that this was not the true...

New book is about the trump family. welcome to you all. emily, because you're most steamed on a day-to-day basis, i'm going to begin with you. why did this come out tonight, what else do you know about this and other recordings? >> what's interesting about the timing tonight is on friday night we knew about what was on the recording according to rudy guiliani. my sources in cohen world were already telling me at that point that this was not the true narrative, in their mind, and i think over the weekend there was some stewing going on, that this was not what they bleed is the truth and that th...

Feeling like for the first time in a very long time they were able to control a narrative that was at least better than the narrative that unfolded on friday afternoon. >> and they felt like it was more rooted in the facts. the facts are that donald trump was right there by his side doing anything that he did on behalf of donald trump? >> yeah. on friday the way rudy giuliani painted the narrative was this was completely exculpatory for the president and michael cohen and those around him over the weekend were stewing over the fact that that was accepted as the narrative when they believe that...

Anxious about it. so i just think this kind of has snowballed and gets bigger and bigger. if you remember we go back to the papadopoulos episode, nobody had ever heard of his name either and that was one of the cleanest-cut examples of criminally at th criminality that has come so far. when you hear the five names, there's a lot we don't know and that has got to keep the president and the white house on their toes. >> i'm reminded, john, of the description someone gave of the mueller probe it's not an iceberg, it's an underground village. it's sprawling and there are parts you can't see anyw...