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People that are to the right or to the fringe or maybe it's up and down of bill barr and chris krebs, lifelong republicans. they're now in charge of elections in georgia. >> right. and that axios story, i think, is the one that really set off the alarm bells, that you are replacing all of the republicans who might have served as guardrails or bulwarks against stealing the election the first time around and replacing them with true believers in the conspiracy theories, and look, as you point out, there's nothing stealthy about this. this is happening in realtime. it's in plain view. so what we ...

Of bill through the congress, at least on the electoral count act. >> what's amazing, rev, and i'm not joking, i mean, maybe the problem is that lacking bureaus in georgia, not having a correspondent in spalding county means that we have this story and we can't see the people. we can't see their faces, but it's happening now. so, whenever they turn to it, it's already too late. republicans have spent every day since last november pushing back against our democracy, straining it, distorting it, perverting it. this is from the reuters report. the ousted democrat in spalding called the changes a ...

Liz cheney understands that. >> two more things on liz cheney. all the things you said were right. two more things. she understands -- as dan just said, she understands the implications of it, the stakes. >> right. >> in a profound way. you can hear it in everything she says, in the not even just a fight about trump or trumpism. it is a fight about the future of american democracy. it is a fight about the soul of the country, whether the country stays what we all were raised to believe it is. >> right. >> and she's someone who plays the way you just described and she right now has nothing left...

>> right. i agree with you that i think this sort of snuck up on people, that a year ago, last december, i wrote, before january 6th, that donald trump was going to have to try to break the republican party. it was sort of, you know, something he had to do for his ego or his numerous pathologies but what i didn't realize, that when the big lie was a litmus test, that it actually was going to become an organizing principle. it's now -- it doesn't just energize the base. it is the one issue they talk about. it is how you make yourself a candidate. you sign off to run for something, you say you b...

Cast. and when we say we can't imagine this happening, well, blacks of a certain generation in georgia can imagine it, because it was in the lifetime of my parents' generation where they couldn't vote at all, which is why you see a reaction on -- among older blacks in georgia, because they are seeing the return to a reality that they saw when they were young. and now i think for the first time, whites, republican and democrat, are seeing people that will manipulate the system to disempower them and to limit their right to vote. and this is brazen. so, you cannot only say you want someone that ...