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Poor that will pay. the middle-class will find they have a lot less support for buying their insurance. >> the support meaning the sort of subsidy structure has been altered in ways that folks are going to be out of pocket paying more, do you think? >> yeah, the affordable care act expanded medicaid for the poorest people but for those in the lower middle-class, $40,000, $50,000, these people got help buying their policies with subsidie subsidies, tax rebates, those were progressive so that the less money you had, the more help you got. under this proposal, the amount of subsidization is the s...

This will go the opposite direction and it's not just the poor that will pay. the middle-class will find they have a lot less support for buying their insurance. >> the support meaning the sort of subsidy structure has been altered in ways that folks are going to be out of pocket paying more, do you think? >> yeah, the affordable care act expanded medicaid for the poorest people but for those in the lower middle-class, $40,000, $50,000, these people got help buying their policies with subs subsidies, tax rebates, those were progressive so that the less money you had, the more help you got. und...

>> we don't know if it will be cheaper because they skipped a major step. >> i don't think it will be cheaper. >> this hasn't been cbo qualified yet, congressional budget office. >> right. >> as messy as the obamacare process was, they were getting it scored along the way so you would be able to see what it costs and what it didn't. with obamacare, there was nothing to compare it against. now you have something to compare this plan to. even our reckoning, it's too gentle. there is no possibly fewer people, there is no maybe. you'll have millions of people kicked off the roles either by the sta...

Your plan if you want it, which obviously smacks at one of the biggest republican criticisms of obamacare when he failed to deliver on being able to keep your own doctor. with your understanding of the aca, how can a state opt in if everybody is not in? because what they are going to do with the mandate and the subsidy structure and the pool structure. would that work? >> i don't think it would, and what we see is a proposal and tom price in talking about how he would replace if the affordable care act is ultimately repealed. he would not guarantee that people with preexisting health condition...

Is hard to imagine the supreme court court, they're looking at this argument with obamacare. >> the argument is premised in part on the idea that everyone always knew that the subsidy structure was to incentivize states to set up their own system. we decided, well let's find those instances in which everyone knew about it prior to the irs establishing its ruling that the subsidies would be universal. we looked through public records results from various states. we couldn't come up with one single instance in which the federal government told the states that the subsidies would be conditional o...