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They're saying a plane went up to 2,000 feet above the surface ceiling of the airplane then went down and up again. the other thing is, if the airplane's reporting systems, its transponder and everything was compromised, how was that information derived in the first place? how was the malaysian military folks -- >> right. >> -- able to give you the information with a high degree of certainty? i think that's one of the big parts of the problem is that we have all these silos of information that are out there right now, and it almost seems like we're getting bits of information and more, you kno...

Then going down to 23,000, then back up to 30,000, then flying for several hours. what do you make of that? >> well, it's interesting from an aerodynamic standpoint. the surface ceiling of the airplane is 41,500. if the plane is up at 45,000 feet, the margin between overspeeding the aircraft getting into what's sometimes called mach tuck going way too fast for the airplane and stalling the airplane becomes very, very small. you're up there in a very dangerous situation. the airplane is likely to come down on its own accord at that point. it can't sustain flight there. we talked about the stabi...