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Systems across the country. think about for a second, what would you do with data from 40 million credit and debit cards item you don't use that yourself. you sell it. to people who want to make fake cards or otherwise make a profit. and the cards aren't hard to buy. bloomberg reported in 2011 that stolen credit cards could be purchased at an amazon-like online bazaar for just $3.50 each. there's a massive underground market for this stuff. and the target hack is just the latest big theft. back in 2007, thieves stole data from up to 90 million cards from t.j. maxx and other chains. since then,...

Flanagan. clay, let's start start with this target hack. how do you pull this off? how do you get -- i genuinely don't understand. how do you get 1,800 card readers across the country to start feeding you their data? >> this is a really sophisticated operation. i've been studying the history of this for some time now, and the way that they did this is pretty significant. nobody knows quite sure how they did it. i mean, was it hardware, was it software? on the chip readers? what we do know is they operated sort of out of band, which means that they were able to get more data off of the credit c...

Government, and jessica flanagan. clay, let's start with this target hack. how do you pull this off? how do you get -- i genuinely don't understand. how do you get 1,800 card readers across the country to start feeding you their data? >> this is a really sophisticated operation. i've been studying the history of this for some time now, and the way that they did this is pretty significant. nobody knows quite sure how they did it. i mean, was it hardware, was it software? on the chip readers? what we do know is they operated sort of out of band, which means that they were able to get more data o...