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my guest today is the leader of the biggest opposition party, the democratic alliance, john steenhuisen. could he become south africa's first white leader since apartheid? john steenhuisen, welcome to hardtalk. great to be with you, stephen. well, it's great to be here in cape town. let's start with a very simple question. when you said not so long ago, "there is a changing of the guard coming in south africa, the anc�*s decline is terminal. it's just a matter of how fast," did you really believe that? of course i believed it then. i think it's a fair assessment about where the anc...

To over 30% in this election. the langa by—election, where the da increased its percentage by around 7—8%, the opposition is growing and the anc share of the vote is retreating. i'm going to be blunt with you. isn't the problem that the democratic alliance isn't making a big breakthrough? isn't the problem in the end, mr steenhuisen, down to you? no, it's not. you're the wrong leaderfor this party? absolutely not, and 83% of the party who've just voted me and re—elected me as another term leader would disagree. i think that we've seen a stabilisation of the da under my leadership. we got...

Isn't the problem that the democratic alliance isn't making a big breakthrough? isn't the problem in the end, mr steenhuisen, down to you? no, it's not. you're the wrong leaderfor this party? absolutely not, and 83% of the party who've just voted me and re—elected me as another term leader would disagree. i think that we've seen a stabilisation of the da under my leadership. we got 19% in the last general election. i inherited a party sitting at 16% in the polls. the party is now sitting 25—27% with nobody talking... well, you're a man who likes polls. do you know what your current approva...

Its percentage by around 7—8%, the opposition is growing and the anc share of the vote is retreating. i'm going to be blunt with you. isn't the problem that the democratic alliance isn't making a big breakthrough? isn't the problem in the end, mr steenhuisen, down to you? no, it's not. you're the wrong leaderfor this party? absolutely not, and 83% of the party who've just voted me and re—elected me as another term leader would disagree. i think that we've seen a stabilisation of the da under my leadership. we got 19% in the last general election. i inherited a party sitting at 16% in the p...

Cause is worthy of their accepting risk and maybe making the ultimate sacrifice. and sometimes that gets personified in the leader, what you communicate to them, the kind of loyalty you show them is so important. and so you're really trying to get people to commit. and whenever you get people to commit to something that's good, i think you've done something that's right in leadership. >> for you, part of being a leader action even a military leader who's out there leading a bunch of people in these very difficult situations, there's an intellectual task. there is the task of articulating an id...