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Only is the irs tasked with collective taxes from wealthy people, it's now tasked with regulating the dark money in our elections that wealthy people use to elect people to gut the tax code and the irs. >> it's either lois lerner or the general council of the irs or somebody at the white house saying, or somebody at the treasury saying, the irs better get on crossroads gps. >> conservatives recognize that one of the only things standing between us and a genuine plutocracy are thousands of anonymous bureaucrats doing the basic work of enforcing our nation's laws. joining me now, msnbc contribut...

Lot of my democratic colleagues, i think, mistakenly supported them. are they going to run that on a bake sale or by donations? it's obvious nonsense. and by the way, as to this enforcement of the tax code, remember what the irs is trying to do? they are trying to say that you should not be getting the charitable deduction if your so-called charity, is, in fact, a front for a political contribution machine. and they have, and it was all going to be done first. and there was some suspicion it might have been conservatives. but it's now clear they were looking at both conservatives and liberals....

>> most people don't feel that warrantly towards the internal revenue service. they're the folks who many are writing a check to on this very day. but without the irs, or something like it, we wouldn't have a government. in fact, it's the cornerstone upon which the entire edifice of the federal government is built. and that is precisely the reason conservatives have so consistently taken a sledgehammer to it. in fact, they've been at it for years. in the 1990s, newt gingrich focused much of his agenda as speaker on abolishing the agency. even launching a national scrap the tax tour. in 1998, h...

For americans for tax reform. that's the organization that grover norquist founded. maddie, why do you want everyone to waste precious hours on their tax returns? why do you want to make people's lives worse? >> chris, why do you want to point out that i was the second choice to grover. >> i apologize! but i hope that, because we named it. we're not just talking about him when he's in the room. we love having you on. continue. >> thanks, chris. well, listen, i know that this seems like an appealing argument to make tax preparation simpler, but what we would like to focus on is making taxes sim...

How do they plan to pay for that iraq war, which president bush pushed so hard and the republican congress voted for, a lot of my democratic colleagues, i think, mistakenly supported them. are they going to run that on a bake sale or by donations? it's obvious nonsense. and by the way, as to this enforcement of the tax code, remember what the irs is trying to do? they are trying to say that you should not be getting the charitable deduction if your so-called charity, is, in fact, a front for a political contribution machine. and they have, and it was all going to be done first. and there was s...