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Lobbied for, evan. what we said was that we want to use student learning as part of an evaluation but the specific test score that they wanted to use was a flawed test. we want to have multiple measures. look, the bottom line is this. we want teachers to succeed, we want kids to succeed, and again, the countries that outpace us, what they do first and foremost, is they give teachers the training and the time they desperately need to help all kids. we know we can't do it alone, but we want to do our share. that's what teachers are sega cross the country, that's what the union is saying. >> i kn...

From that district do not know what's going on there on the ground, the president included. and what i can tell you is that there's no research to say these wholesale firings of teachers and staffs do anything to improve academic improvement. what we can only safely say that they do is cause additional chaos and turmoil in communities that are already facing tough decisions. >> what's the one thing, though, school districts can do? >> school districts and school boards can support their teachers. they can support their kids. we can try to get a hand l on the testing that's taking over. it's te...

>> steve perry, you -- the other day we were talking about the suggestion to eliminate the 12th grade in utah, and you said the biggest problem, the biggest impediment to quality public education right now is teachers unions not allowing teachers to be paid based on the performance of their student. >> well, what teachers unions do is they stand in the way of progress. and one of the places where progress needs to take place is we need to allow there to be a collegial relationship between the teacher and the principal, and they create what is a valued relationship. and we begin to determine th...