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of an energy crisis. it seems set to get worse. what do you think it is doing to this country? well, its aim is to collapse this country and undermine the democratic project, because those in power have relegated their responsibilities, to who, we don't know. they have not maintained the power stations. they have not built the new ones that are functional. and as a result, we are where we are. the interim ceo of eskom, the state—owned energy company, said yesterday that over the coming months of winter they might get to a stage eight situation, which means there could be power cuts...

thank you very much. it's a pleasure to talk to you, mr malema. we are speaking as south africa is in the middle of an energy crisis. it seems set to get worse. what do you think it is doing to this country? well, its aim is to collapse this country and undermine the democratic project, because those in power have relegated their responsibilities, to who, we don't know. they have not maintained the power stations. they have not built the new ones that are functional. and as a result, we are where we are. the interim ceo of eskom, the state—owned energy company, said yesterday that ...

it's just a matter of how fast," did you really believe that? of course i believed it then. i think it's a fair assessment about where the anc find themselves — in the last local government elections, in 2021, they, for the first time in post—democratic south africa, lost their majority and fell below 50%. this obviously allied with the fact that our economy's not growing, we've got 30 million people living in poverty, 12 million people unemployed, and loadshedding, rolling blackouts, which have reached into every home and switched off the lights, switched off our factories, and ...

of the guard coming in south africa, the anc�*s decline is terminal. it's just a matter of how fast," did you really believe that? of course i believed it then. i think it's a fair assessment about where the anc find themselves — in the last local government elections, in 2021, they, for the first time in post—democratic south africa, lost their majority and fell below 50%. this obviously allied with the fact that our economy's not growing, we've got 30 million people living in poverty, 12 million people unemployed, and loadshedding, rolling blackouts, which have reached into e...

the anc has been damaged by economic stagnation, a protracted energy crisis, and massive inequality. my guest today is the leader of the biggest opposition party, the democratic alliance, john steenhuisen. could he become south africa's first white leader since apartheid? john steenhuisen, welcome to hardtalk. great to be with you, stephen. well, it's great to be here in cape town. let's start with a very simple question. when you said not so long ago, "there is a changing of the guard coming in south africa, the anc�*s decline is terminal. it's just a matter of how fast," did you ...