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Apple and $150 million is accurate in that we haven't had a system like this in the past. i think one of the things is that we find creating computer systems from the beginning, especially for the government, tends to be disastrous. the irs has tried for many, many years to improve their computer system and that has not gone well. i think one of the worst parts about this, listening to your last discussion is, democrats are supposed to do government well and they don't appear to be doing it. it's one thing to have a program like this but not to roll it out well speaks badly for the democratic ...

Know all the problems at this point. once you fix one problem you may find there's other problems related. you do have a complex set of interconsecutives. on the other hand i say we have examples where the connections have worked. california, kentucky, new york. so i think learning from them and making sure those people are engaged and can offer advice or the technical teams that worked, for example, like the california exchange would help facilitate this. there's no sense in reinventing the wheel at every stage of the game if we know certain things do work. >> i want to talk about enrollment ...

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Are listening to me. jeffrey is a talented guy, really understands people and understands management. i think it's a good thing he's moving over. he's supposed to take over as head of the economic council. how that will work, i don't know. i think that's a positive sign, but i think they certainly need to do more. daily briefings i think are essential. i don't think you're going to regain the trust of the american public without being straightforward and completely, totally candid with them. >> based on what you have heard, based on what you know, do you get a sense the problems are structural...

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