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If there's an idea that can be put behind or label that can be put behind the way this president is dealing with north korea as the idea of a potential doctrine, what would you call it? what phase are we in now that we have seen the third meeting between the two leader snz. >> you know, usually, you don't deploy your president until you have a pretty good idea which way you are going. in this case, we have a top down process. the president gets out there and then sort of exploratory talks. the proposition is to convince the north koreans they have a better future without nuclear weapons. many ...

That somehow they will be willing to say, okay, we're going to give up everything today. we've had 70 years of distrust and suspicion between ourselves and the north koreans. this is gonna take time. it's not an easy process. the north koreans aren't going to declare immediately everything they have because they don't trust us. and we don't trust them. and so i think that giving steve began time to build relationships, giving the north koreans some small steps and then working toward the bigger goals is the only way. it's a step by step process. it's now a top down process. it's still a step b...

The fact that they're not necessarily read in, there's not a top down process from the white house starting from the president that filters through his staffers. remember sara sanders was shocked, you know, when she found out about michael cohen and said she didn't know. >> the rob porter situation, i know a lot of staffers felt misled about. >> sean spicer was orders god out and make claim about krous sizes that were not true. this is a different world that a lot of these people would have been steeped in washington and communications have to deal with, an unpredictable and whimsical presiden...

Republican leadership say there's not a bill yet to see. many republicans don't believe that. there was a draft bill leaked to the press last week. and they say that this is a very top-down process, that their ideas aren't getting herd, at only a few people with writing this bill and they won't have any chance to amend it, put in their prescription into it. and so they're very frustrated with how this process is being very top-down and they're having very little input. >> nbc politics reporter leigh ann caldwell, fortunately not talking to a bust of abraham lincoln. "the celebrity apprentice...

To do. we need to move away from a top-down process. in other words, suzanne, he says he'll be the guy who will listen to his frustrated colleagues, but he's still the underdog here. whether or not he can win is still an open question. >> thank you so much. appreciate it. i want to bring in our political panel here. brian morgenstern and ellis, a democrat. thanks for being with us. brian, i want to start off with you. what do you think are chaffetz's chances at this point against kevin mccarthy? do we think that he has this yet? >> well, he's got an uphill battle because whoever will win the c...