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Nonstarter, i think, for the progressives. >> exactly, alisyn. you have joe manchin saying, this is a firm top line, and you have the progressives saying, this is a nonstarter. so, while there are big developments today, it's a bit like we're marching in place here, but what i find so intriguing, both senator manchin and senator sinema, in her statement or her office put out a statement today, seemed to suggest that chuck schumer and joe biden have known their numbers. so, the last couple months, there's been this conversation in the democratic party of just manchin and sinema should say what ...

All the way back in july manchin set out then more specific numbers in a written summary, a topline as they call it for democrat chuck schumer and agreed up to 1.5 trillion in that second spending package, which is less than half of the 3.5 trillion that most of the democratic party and liberals are pushing for as of tonight so what we have here is a development. as a narrative matter and a story, that's interesting. as a human matter, it shows you just how far apart the democrats are for spending that could affect your life and your family's life. this changes the public's understanding of th...

Closely engaged with her about the path forward. >> referred to this moment as a collection point. >> this moment as in this moment, 2:40 p.m. this afternoon or as in today? >> he doesn't have -- his topline number. >> i think the president has used this as the last several days and even longer than that, he's made some progress. seen some members come down and some members come up and you've seen active negotiations. he's actually been hard at work at them himself and what we clearly see as an agreement about the need to get this done or whether it's the infrastructure bill or the reconciliat...

"morning joe" later to discuss the meeting. joining us now is jake sherman, an msnbc contributor and a reporter for politico. what progress was made yesterday between president biden and various democrats. >> well, jon, they're talking. there's a lot to go over here. they're on different pages on nearly everything including the topline number. as you know, $3.5 trillion is the number they're working off. that will have to be paired bag to something smaller. they didn't make any progress on that. and there's also a ton of policies outstanding when it comes to reconciliation andmedi. so just a...

And we believe we've met that expectation. >> so the whole country has become amateur vaccine experts over the last year. but you're an actual vaccine expert. so does this comparable antibody response mean the level of protection, the immune response is the same? can you kind of walk us through the difference there? you know, obviously we don't have the data. but the difference between the immune response and how well this thing works for kids? >> who are you -- me or -- >> doctor offit, please. >> all right. okay. right. so when you do, for example, as pfizer did, a 40,000 person trial where ...