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Poppy. shimon, thank you for walking us through that. it is more than a little confusing. with me now back with me jeffrey toobin. look, i suppose rudy giuliani can say whatever he wants in all of these tv interviews and whether he s be truthful or not truthful and completely flipping the story. there s nothing illegal about that. but i mean, where do we go from here? what does it tell you whether the president will sit with mueller and if he does, he s going to say there was no conversation so it will be comey s word against the president s on that. i mean, rudy giuliani is correct that lawyers often make arguments in the alternative. it s like if i borrow your tea kettle you could say you never borrowed my tea kettle. it was broken when you borrowed it to me no it was after i returned it to you. lawyers can make these contradict tri alternative arguments and that s what giuliani is doing here, saying comey never said it to comey ....

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