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What they need from us is to encourage them to follow the rule of law. the tragic thing, as you say, about what's happening now is that we're doing the opposite. every aspect of what mr. giuliani and mr. trump are doing is pushing them in the wrong direction. at the obvious level they're urging the president of the company to be corrupt. then they're saying your old prosecutor general, who everybody agreed was the most corrupt person in the country, he was good, should be brought back. and then they're saying your investigative journalists, who are the good guys in this story, those people are...

Chris cillizza is here with the number of the week. what have you got, handsome? >> all right. here we go. the number is 12. it's 12, chris, because there's 12 house democrats who are still not in favor after an impeachment inquiry or an impeachment. when i started this out earlier today, it was 17. out of that dozen, 11 of them represent districts that donald trump won in 2016. only one, eddie bernice johnson, in texas, in a democratic district, is the only holdout that hillary clinton won. amid this rush, vis-a-vis of the ukraine news and the news about russia, that the last time there

About what's happening now is that we're doing the opposite. every aspect of what mr. giuliani and mr. trump are doing is pushing them in the wrong direction. they're urging the president of the company to be corrupt. then they're saying your old prosecutor general, who everybody agreed was the most corrupt person in the country, he should be brought back. and then you're investigative journalists, who are the good guys in this story, those people are enemies of the united states, enemies of america. they're talking about the people who actually find out the things we need to know about inequa...

As someone who knows ukraine to be able to get that level of detail in ukraine, what this is going to do to them and vis-a-vis what they're going to handle in terms of russia, it's fascinating. when i think of trump and giuliani, i don't think of them as experts on any other country, much less our own. and so the idea that they're over there basically tuning up all the good guys and helping out -- tuning out the good guys and helping the bad guys, it's hard for me to know why there and what it is about ukraine that has become their playground in this way. >> yeah. i mean, there are a couple th...

How people act until their backs are against the walls and i guess only time will tell if it develops. you heard chairman engle, three subpoenaing the secretary of state is part of the impeachment inquiry. they want the documents about president trump and rudy giuliani and the government and rudy giuliani and how he was operating as a private citizen and the personal attorney of the president and the vis-a-vis, the ukraine and foreign policy. so what do you think that will yield, carrie? is he going to comply? they said they haven't yet heard from him. n he is certainly, the administration has...