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He went to a luncheon with leading civic leaders, business leaders in benghazi. so he felt very comfortable. it was his decision. ambassadors do not have to seek permission from the state department to travel around the country that they are assigned to. he decided to go to benghazi. by taking two security officers with him and having three there, he had the requisite five that had been the subject of discussion between the embassy and the state department security professionals. i'm not going to in any way suggest that he or the embassy got everything they requested. we know that they didn't ...

We had no other sources. you know, there was no american outpost. there was no, you know, american military presence. eventually other americans representing different agencies were able to get into benghazi and begin to do the same work, but they, of course, couldn't do that work overtly, which is why we wanted a diplomat who could be publicly meeting with people to try to get the best assessment. but it was always going to be a constant risk. and we knew that. >> and so let me go back to the risk in 2011 because there was a lot of communication, again, once again, in your senior staff, from ...

Benghazi, and that the day that he died, he had five security officers. a lot of security professionals who have reviewed this matter, even those who are critical, that the state department did not do enough have said that the kind of attack that took place would have been very difficult to repel. that's what we have to learn from, congresswoman. you know, there are many -- there are many lessons going back to beirut, going back to tehran and the takeover of our embassy and going all the way through these years. and sometimes we learn lessons and we actually act and we do the best we can, and ...

Could or should be. >> i want to drill down on the security issue, but i also want to say it's frustrating for us here on this panel asking these questions to hear you in your opening statement talk about the responsibility you took for all 70-plus thousand employees, but yet i read you an e-mail that is a conversation between two of those employees, and it seems as though you're just kind of brushing it off as not having any knowledge. >> no i'm just saying i have no recollection of it, and it doesn't correspond the facts on a regular basis. >> if we could talk about security, i've got a few ...

Secretary's staff. but i get what you're saying, congresswoman, and i want to focus on this because i think it's a fair and important question. the facility in benghazi was a temporary facility. there had been no decision made as to whether or not it would be permanent. it was not even a consulate. you know, our embassy was in tripoli. obviously, much of the work that we were doing was going through the embassy. there was a -- there was a very vigorous discussion on the part of people who were responsible for making a recommendation about benghazi as to what form of consulate, what form of fac...