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More difficult, because there are not many more void spaces, and where the people may be trapped, but it is more difficult, and with that, not just collapsed as a pancake, but again, the rubble, and the debris is so densely packed, it leaves little room for voids. but the chances are very slim at some point. >> at some point, it is going to be a recovery effort. what is involved to make that determination? >> so all of the aspects are considered, and the time that it collapsed, the situation now with the rubble, with the fires and no indication of anybody

What are you using to make a decision in this case? >> ultimately the leader of miami-dade county. i provide the information. we look at the type of collapse, the internal environment, the heat, humidity, the tire, and the presence or absence of void spaces. so we try to look at all of that to try to put together a package to make an educated decision and based on the probability. >> let me go to you to talk more about how this happened in the first place. fears of residents of another related tower complex that there might be problems that caused

Confirming these details. it says an estimate was provided to make, in their words, extensive and necessary repairs. now, i spoke, earlier, about rescue efforts with the 20 -- about the 2018 report with john butler. he is the fire chief for the fairfax county fire and rescue department in virginia. here's some of what he had to say. >> we have talked about the -- the fires with an unuknown origin. it seems to be under control right now. but there's secondary collapses. or potentially, disrupting of void spaces where there could be -- there could be life, still, worth saving. so, there -- the c...

This building, and so i would just be speculating. i couldn't comment on that. >> what about how long a search like this can go on? at what point does it shift from rescue to recovery? i mean, is there a breaking point? >> there's absolutely going to be a transition. it's going to have to happen. a lot of factors are taken into place. the type of collapse, the type of extraneous issues, including the fire, including the water, and also the presence or absence of void spaces. all of those things are being looked at in an effort to make the determination. and the determination may not be all or ...

Drilling down into those void spaces. so developing a very not cool, very systematic, deliberate plan in order to effect as much rescue as possible. that's what's taken place right now. and they're doing it as i would do it. they're doing it as i would have implemented the plan. they're starting to layer some of the large pieces of concrete and see if they can unearth any other void spaces. again, this is a process that takes a considerable amount of time. and when you have evacuations from lightning strikes and the fire, it just complicates things. but the rescuers still have hope. i asked th...