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Going through pain but they also know they're going to get paid back and it is a temporary inconvenience. >> if you live paycheck to paycheck, pay back doesn't cut it. >> but what he is focused on is a permanent and serious problem at the border that effects the security of our country. >> i'm with you 100%. but one, there was never reason to put it on the backs of the american people. they have nothing to do with this. >> that takes two to do that, chris. >> no, it doesn't. >> he shut it down. >> the idea that any shutdown, whether it was the shutdowns or the schumer shutdown just a year ago,...

>> me too. >> this was not a wish list invented here at the white house. it's coming from border patrol. they say here is what we need to enable us to do our jobs more effectively and more thoroughly. they are stretched. you know -- they have never seen flow like this. a wall doesn't address that. >> we need a barrier, in addition to everything else that i just mentioned we want the technology, the detention beds, the humanitarian needs met. it's all in there. >> when he was saying the wall is the big thing and mexico is going to pay for it and all of you guys on the republican side were like ...

Mean -- let's all get in the room and talk about what that border security is. there are many parts along that border that a wall doesn't even work. there's rivers, etc. we have new technology out. we have drones. we have sensors. we should be using all of it, ya. maria: absolutely. >> so why do we have to close six other departments, and let's get in regular order, let's get in a room, let's all agree on border security, a package that'll truly keep us safe, and let's reopen the government. maria: i think you make a lot of good points because there are areas of the country where we don't need...

Simple. easy. awesome. ♪ ♪ maria: and we're back with congresswoman debbie dingell. congresswoman, i want you to talk to me a bit about why the speaker and your colleagues are so against some kind of fencing or barrier on our southern border. in fact, nancy pelosi has a border wall right in her own state. we're going to look at this map right here of tijuana and the wall that separates tijuana and san diego. you've got about three million people in tijuana and three million in san diego. why wasn't one of her first points on the agenda to tear down this wall if it's immoral? >> so what i w...

That a wall doesn't even work? . >> is donald trump the one that is to the prospect of a visual huge wall? it was concretes and whatever it is, 20, 30 feet high is he the one that has to be convinced you can be equally effected with infrared, any number of things? increased border patrols? does the problem lie exclusively with him or is it with republicans that are backing him as well? >> look, quite frankly president trump said i own this shutdown. this shutdown is where our major problem is. during his campaign he said i will build a wall. the wall has become a symbol to him. what we need to...