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>> the other thing you hinted at is this warrior mentality of seeing the public as always threatening to kill you. and coming at the public at least certain people in the public, particularly black and brown folks, as if they're deadly, but police kill far more people than ever hurt them. the statistics are just extremely lopsided. so police killed 1,096 people and no one should be killed on either side of this, but 1,096 to 64. it's not as if police are constantly being killed. but the training makes it seem like every encounter is a deadly one in theory, right? >> yes, and i think that we al...

You do, and five black officers, as you do, certainly racism has nothing to do with this case, and i think that that is not right. what you have to begin to look at is if the overwhelming number of victims of police abuse are black in memphis, as they are, as disproportionate, as they are, then racial bias is a factor. how could that possibly be? it's because the culture of policing. there are certain neighborhoods where they are a warrior mentality. this is a war zone. you have to do what you've got to do, you have to jump out. in other neighborhoods the same police department treats with a s...

New fallout from the death of tyre nichols in memphis. let's get back to our experts for more analysis. van, you write a very compelling article on cnn.com in which you write this, and let me quote from your article. "it is the race of the victim who is brutalized, not the race of the violent cop, that is most relevant in determining whether racial bias is a factor in police violence." tell our viewers what that means. what matters most, what you're suggesting here? >> what i'm suggesting is some people are saying because you have a black police chief, the majority of the police on the force a...

Say to people, you either live in fear of crime or live in fear of the police. it shouldn't be a binary choice. >> wolf, i want to say i agree so much, i thif it's a combination not only with what van is saying about the way black males are treated, but to van's point about the warrior and protector, that's where you see the difference. we have to tamp down on the warrior mentality. it's not just militarization in terms of the equipment. it's the culture and mentality that they're aware with the populous. you see the enormous rage in that video. over what? there's a notion of being very amped ...

That the most dangerous encounters that they can make, they are practically patrolling black and brown communities and over policing those communities. and they are taught that when they encounter folks that they should be suspicious of, like a black man or a person who is perhaps flipping in their car, just doing something suspicious, they go in with a warrior mentality and they go into hurt and to harm instead of going in to understand. and when people don't comply they are dealt with in a situation where the police are really now handling them in terms of being in contempt of the cop. so th...