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Thing was. i'm not saying the old system was great. in 2015 when it comes to all the business owners over 50. it's going to create a major economic impact. >> we have to make sure we understand the old way wasn't working either. we live in a society where we want people to be doing better, to have more. and i think, you know, i don't think obamacare is perfect by any stretch. but there is a lot more than that could have been done differently. on your wish list, how could we have made it better for business. made it better for the consumer of medical care? better for doctors and nurses? >> less...

That's what will pay for it now. we know about fines, depending on size of the company could be tens of millions of dollars. what is going on with this? >> well, i think the reality is that this is the beginning of a significant change in our health care system. i mean when the president moved to reform health care, it is because too few people were covered, costs were going up too rapidly. there was threats to innovation in the system. and i think what we're trying to do now with this new law, and it is a big experiment, there is no doubt about it. we'll learn as we go through it what is work...

The bill, and that's where it went wrong, so he realized that wasn't working either. and you really saw after the first of the year, after particularly the victory of scott brown replacing ted kennedy in the senate seat in massachusetts, you saw the president take a big push, come up with his own kind of plan, and be able to bring this over the finishing line. >> but i think a lot of people would say, certainly the republicans would say, so much of this did happen behind closed doors is the complaint. john boehner saying himself that you know what there's all these secret deals going on right ...