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There's no outrage calling for senators to take action. and that, i think, has been the legal strategy that trump has played to all along knowing that it's very unlikely that there will be an indictment. that mueller will seek a formal grand jury indictment against him because of the longstanding doj policy that we've talked about. so this notion that it's the american people sitting as a jury and that the mounting lies, the question becomes whether at some point there's a tipping point where people understand if you are lied to repeatedly, and if you have to lie about all of your contacts wit...

Just based on the publicly known information. there's good reason to believe that there are criminal charges against the president ranging from campaign finance to obstruction. we haven't seen all of the information about the foundation and inauguration yet but that looks problematic as well. and so the president's repeated cries of witch hunt or they're out to get me. at some point that wears very thin as layer upon layer of wrongdoing and misconduct is weighted down by the president's changing stories, his constantly shifting stories, which is such a hallmark of a guilty mind. >> shawna thom...

Said when asked if he believes trump's explanation. here's orrin hatch earlier this week. >> i think the democrats will do anything to hurt this president, anything. >> this is the southern district of new york, the u.s. attorney that's making this allegation. >> you think he's a republican, do you? >> he's employed by the president. employed by this president. >> okay, but i -- i don't care. all i can say is he's doing a good job as president. >> he later said in a statement in part, i made comments about allegations against the president that were irresponsible and a poor reflection on my le...

Witnesses now saying that. michael cohen and david pecker. mark's got a point. if donald trump wasn't the president, if he was just donald trump the businessman, he wouldn't be under all this scrutiny and there's a relentless momentum when you have a special counsel who has one case and one target essentially. he's also the president of the united states. we hold him to a higher standard. and he hasn't released his tax return. the first president in modern history to have a lack of transparency. he has massive conflicts of interest, a giant business he hasn't divested from. the american people...

>> and you even see it with this argument where it's gone from -- he didn't do it to, if he did it it's not breaking the law. so even the terms of argument from trump on air force one to trump now is different. now he's conseeding, yeah, so i paid her, but so what. so i think that having truth from the white house is an important on this one. >> i get the sense to the point about republicans that the shift may come if there is actually a shoe in the russia collusion question. that's when they may start to lose senators. i want to get your take on something rudy giuliani said this morning. take...