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Never charge that person. that's a perjury trap. where there's no basis to ever bring a charge. because there's immunization in that case. here mueller has got this investigation. by all accounts, it's legitimate. rod rosenstein has said it's legitimate. the best way to avoid a perjury trap or what mr. guiliani is most concerned about and maybe the president, just don't lie. >> it's a good suggestion. i'll take it to heart. especially when i've got to do this interview next. good to remember. things to live by. great to see you, mark. great to see you, seth, thank you. another trump ally is ...

I needed to raise it. the point about the journalist, the side thing that trump says about making new friends, we know what that means. and trump's focus on these odd sexual things is part of the narrative of a machismo 1970s type of guy and animates the mafia tone that's going on in the white house. i'm going to stop them from doing this. you need to stop the investigation. >> josh, hold your thought. i need to ask michael, where's the floor? >> in terms of where mueller will take us? >> no. of decency. >> of decency. it's where people want it to be. they have to make a determination of how t...

Mueller -- >> we have to conclude that the president is not a target and they can't charge him and all of those things have to fall away. if we're left in report land, then i imagine that rosenstein aggregates multiple reports and sends them over to the congress at once. >> i want to ask you about where we are in this investigation. because it was in the atlantic earlier this week, noting we've learned a lot about different pieces of mueller's investigation, he has an obstruction of justice probe and the indictment on the russians for doing the fake news and the bots. but there is one giant ga...

Said no. and again, last week, the white house was denying that general mcmasters would be replaced by john bolton and suddenly john bolton is in and general mcmasters is out. so the president's kind of consistency in what he's saying is not the most remarkable phenomenon in washington these days. >> and some of the areas laid out of what mueller is going to focus on. what does that tell you as we put them on the screen of where mueller's investigation is headed? >> well, i think the investigation is comprehensive. he's already been very successful. he's gotten guilty pleas from two associates...

Carrie cordero. good to see you both. the hoax. we have like the fifth guy getting involved with the special counsel. what does the gates indictment mean to you in terms of where mueller is headed? >> it means a couple things. gates was on the campaign himself. gates was working closely with him on the campaign. so there is a lot potentially that he knows independent of paul manafort, that gates knows regarding activities that went on in the campaign, if there were communications with russian surrogates. he was there. he was very involved in his own right. and it also has consequences for the ...