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>> at this stage, they were duped and they were suckers and took all these meetings. the obstruction case would -- is separate from that. in other words, once they realize that, uh-oh, i got duped, if they keep lying to investigators, they're in trouble for separate reasons. that's why when robert and the previous panel was saying maybe politics was motivating this, right, they were just nervous about admitting it, it still does not justify an obstruction case or anything else. and we're giving them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't know what they were doing. as you know, i've been on ...

Papadopoulos and it reads to me like a kind of mad libs for compromised blowhards and scumbags. you have people unnamed in here who know what they have done because they are being named and because this defendant, papadopoulos, has pled guilty to all the charge. so all of these claims are certified as true according to this guy who has now flipped and is working with them. papadopoulos, it's been reported, might have been responsible for that 5:00 a.m. fbi raid at manafort's house which means he knows a little bit more than a 29-year-old nobody intern would know about the inner workings of the...

Obstruction of justice. >> i think there's already proof of obstruction of justice from president trump's tweets. i'm with jeffrey toobin on this. when you say you're firing comey because of an investigation, that's obstruction. whether mueller can prove it is another question. but there's no doubt in my mind that the obstruction of justice charges are part of a larger underlying crime of which i don't think we have a clear picture of yet and maybe it's unfolding before our eyes as more people speak up against what happened during the campaign. >> thank you all. i appreciate it. that's it for ...

We don't need a special prosecutor for that. the question is, is the only going to investigate collusion between the trump campaign allegedly and the russians or is it going to involve the clintons? >> shannon: do you trust him to follow the facts? there's a lot of folks on both sides of the aisle who says that he will go after democrats if he finds a ledge of a net reason to come if they have broken the law. a lot of folks on the hill -- lindsey graham said they would be "holy hell to pay" of the president gets rid of mueller or is not cooperating with him. it's because there's a difference b...

Department investigation in recent memory that had 20 prosecutors assigned to it? it just doesn't happen. my guess is the terrorist operation, antiterrorist operation right now in response to yesterday's attack might have similar numbers. but this is a mini justice department being run by mr. mueller and people who are appointed by the president and subjected to senate confirmation are just's supervising him prayed for to make this indictment, not about the price of tea in china, what about something really minor relatively speaking tells us that he has an overly wide view. >> shannon: what he...