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Affairs with people who are on the list and the callers are "feeling terrorized." is there any proof that this information is even accurate? >> well, there's, yeah, you're right. there's a question about that because some of the people who have been contacted are either, they are here legally and they say some of the numbers have been disconnected or, you know, so it appears that some of the information on the list, at least, is probably dated. so, no, i guess at this point there's not any indication what percentage of them might be here legally or illegally. but, as tony mentioned, there are ...

As we speak. he is getting here this morning. he has a meeting with secretary gates at the pentagon and then comes over to the white house and have this private meeting with obama. >> by the way, just so you know, we are talking about how a lot of the military people don't fear wrm barack obama. when you just said he has a meeting with bob gates, meacham and i both wince at the same time. i guarantee you mcchrystal is more frightened of that meeting with bob gates. that is going to be ugier than he is the commander in chief. that is going to be ugly. >> i mean, for mcchrystal this basically on...

Product of active choices that highlight the country's meaning and message. there was no golden age when americans lived in happy agreement. after all, the country began with deep discord. the constitution itself was so bitterly opposed by powerful voices that it could only be adopted along with ten amendments to the document. for almost two and a half centuries since then, americans have debated fiercely over everything, from national expansion to economics, to wars, to, above all, slavery. slavery and its consequences are the greatest disgrace in american history. naturally this is the issue...

Assertions or see a protest that makes them wince, or something that's taken too far this time. but it's all part of life in a free society. it is a much better indication of a country's vitality than some imposed heroic history that glosses over failures and mistakes and misdeeds. if that means we have to grapple with the reality that men like thomas jefferson or woodrow wilson were complicated characters with great achievements and great flaws, that happens to be the truth. we should have faith that in a free society we can honor men and women for what they did right and hold them to account...

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