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Naval war college at harvard extension school. and michael mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to russia, and then msnbc international affairs analyst. tom, what sticks out to you tonight and what we're learning about this? >> one of the things that is very striking to me is, that the intention here wants to destroy it, somehow. my guess is they're trying to capture that part of the grid, shut off the electricity, and people have to remember that if there were a disaster at the spa and, most of that would actually blow into russia. because of the way the winds go. so, once again, the thing i'm stru...

On this crisis in ukraine. take us tomorrow. well tonight's attack on this power plant, will it change the calculation, the position this white house is taking? >> stephanie, the white house is very measured in the way that it's dealing with this situation as well as with vladimir putin's threat about advancing the nuclear wars tactic. this is a crossing of the rubicon. what vladimir putin did by having his hands showing a nuclear facility is violating international law, violating his commitment to ensure that there would not be attacks on a nuclear facility that is of civilian use, and so, he...

>> well i was also on ukrainian tv, and i really appreciate -- by the way i appreciate the way ukrainians are on your show tonight. these are people i know. i think the ukrainian voice in this debate needs to be louder here in our country. so people can understand, and listen to what they're doing. i really applaud that. i was on tv today with ukrainian journalists podcasting from the big television station. that big power in the middle of kyiv. that was literally just beyond, i think 24 hours ago. right next to bobby -- i can't remember. the time is all blending to me. so it's important to th...

Putin is worried about news. and by the way, i was on both those programs just within the last five days. they don't want people like me talking about this war in russian. and he cut them off. at the same time, it's a demographic thing. the older you are, the more rural place you live, the less educated you are, the more likely you are to listen to putin's national television stations. and when you say that people are watching those clips of people being interviewed, they will say this is the right thing to do. we have to eliminated nazis just as we did before. so there's a much bigger deny in...

Or yesterday when the un general assembly condemned this, urged to russia to change course. does any of this matter? are we speaking a language that need means nothing to vladimir putin? he was never in it for the norms. >> great point. you know, after world war ii, we wrote down our lot of norms. we created the un security council. one of the norms was, thou shall not annexed the territory of thy neighbor, because that's the way world war ii started, if you recall, throughout taxation. and sure enough, he did that in 2014. he did it again just a couple of weeks ago. and then, and unprovoked w...