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Cross and paul butler. all right, table. there are two ways to look at the sort of series of pardons that donald trump has done. so let's go through them. you have d'souza, joe arpaio, his defense is contempt of court, christian saucier. you have scooter libby, of course, who outed valerie plame and jack johnson. so, they're all over the place a little bit. i'll start with you on this, tiffany. there's the thematic reason for it. d'souza is famous for trolling. he trolled t parkland survivors saying that because they wanted florida lawmakers to pass a bill banning assault weapons it was the wo...

See me, i'm beautiful or something like that. so obviously he has a very big personality. this is -- it is news worthy and it is just absurdity. it is news worthy that he wouldn't sit for the grand jury because of the significance of the investigation, how seriously the investigators are taking it. it is significant that he wa walk -- walked away from the room and after a meeting with the special counsel investigators and said they have something on donald trump. i'm spoken to other folks who have been interviewed and when they describe the room, they say that mueller's team really knows what ...

He doesn't fall into a perjury trap which it seems what mueller and his team want to set for him. >> it might upset other witnesses. the fbi rushes to interview flynn. >> not only that, if you're the president, i wouldn't sit down with mueller unless i had to. they've gone after flynn on this issue. papadopoulos as well. i would be very careful and take my advice on what i say to robert mueller and his team. if you're the president, this is got to be lot of concern about the back story here. james clapper who wanted to brief president trump on the dossier, that meeting was leaked to reporters....

Government has back to the states, that might be true, eventually. but they're just -- you don't really know, until you go through the process, that they are saying that they are going to do what they call regular order. have committee hearings. go through the legislative text with a fine-toothed comb, as one should when you're talking about completely changing the health care system in america. we'll see if that happens. but they all are connected. as i toss back to you, the idea of working with democrats. well, if he works with democrats, which a lot of people would applaud him for doing, if...

Appreciated the buzz saw coming. whatever you think of nancy pelosi, that's a group that should be liking her. is it just because of the overtures to donald trump or what's going on? >> that's a really interesting question. really quick, to some degree, maybe they want more than what is currently being discussed. there's another interesting point. i was at dinner last night with some of the leaders and we talked about the daca deal between chuck schumer and nancy pelosi and the fact that we're willing to meet with president to get something for the dreamers. however, the black congressional ca...