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You know, if you are talking about, you know, pre-planning. if you're talking about, the sort of, like, you know, the strategizing in advance, you know, there is a lot of questions about what the public evidence says on that. but if you just look at the on the ground visual evidence, just focus on what is known, and what can be seen, it's very clear that the proud boys were central, instrumental, in all of these five breach points, and advance, that you mentioned before. >> and then, finally, allen, i mentioned the reporting it's going on. do you think it is likely that the link would be on st...

So, let's go through some of this. here's the footage of the very first breach on the 6th, before trump's speech had formally ended. and this was the first time rioters got past police, we which show they were already making progress on their tactical plan, the proud boys and one of their leaders, joe biggs conducting the strategy here to make that breach. >> in what's widely viewed as a tipping point, a protester named ryan samsel talks to joe biggs and immediately confronts the police. biggs and other leaders look on. samsel told the fbi that biggs encouraged him to confront the police, some...

Of, when you look at the tv ratings of those debates and how they played online around the world -- it helped the group energize and mobilize more people. it's also [inaudible] because trump and some of his coup plotters originally open about some of the parts in the plot about stealing the election. -- we witnessed that going into the sixth. afterward, who have his most controversial [inaudible] and navarro admitted the plan but they also disclaim any effort to direct violence. so, you have confessions and misdirections all at once, which brings us to one thing that trump is now claiming toda...

Are your big takeaways, when you think these hearings have made important or new points, not only for the country, but for the justice department where garland says is watching everything, every hour of? it >> i think the knowledge is so importt. ari, you know as a lawyer, how important is it to prove knowledge. and not only that trump knew he had lost, really proving that john eastman, rudy giuliani, these lawyers themselves know that these legal theories were wrong. i think they have greater right liability than anybody here, and i won't be surprised if the justice department takes aim at th...

Of these five breach points, and advance, that you mentioned before. >> and then, finally, allen, i mentioned the reporting it's going on. do you think it is likely that the link would be on stone to other trump officials, knowing that this written plan, this premeditated plan was in the works? or is your view that the fact if it were true would have come out by now? >> i would exercise a measure of caution about 1776 returns. let's remember this was the least by the proud boys defense lawyers themselves. it's a loss a plan adjacent to what's on january 6th, but not exactly what's happened. an...