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>> willie, yes, it would be paid by consumers who buy mexican products and the people selling the mexican imports would get the 20% tax rate and pass it on to the government? >> i think that is an important distinction for people watching. it's not a 20% tariff. in other words prices would go up. >> assuming the companies hit -- pass the it on to the consumer. >> whether people think the dollar will go up or not. >> that makes it more implicated. we are getting into the weeds here because also it will have the effect of strengthening the dollar and lessen the impact for the importeders in the ...

I went online. the trade council in wisconsin for international trade says they have 8,500 companies in michigan and many of middle and smaller are eager to do business with foreign countries. and mexico is a huge market for them at this point. and the governor had been down there. do you think that those companies in wisconsin could now go across the border and say we would like to do some business down here? they are not going to get a good welcome. it's tough for them. we are living, however you want to describe it, in a global economy. i think the president, obviously, got elected and sayi...

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Cetera, et cetera. >> then he cites other experts that tell him it contradicts what james mattis say. >> i think you're right, joe. one hand red meat to the base and not use torture because he will. >> reporter: james mattis as his shield. >> i think we should say what kind of reaction and consequence this approach will have. we have never seen it before. kasie hunt, amid all this, he spoke at the republican conference. how did that go and tell us about it. >> well, this question of torture, for example, is one that i think very neatly encapsulates challenges for trump right now. they don't un...

Important policies and important appointments, but you never know where everything -- anything quite stand. and then you have steve bannon's ridiculous eruption yesterday about the media. look, i don't need steve bannon's permission to do my job. i have the first amendment and all i need and i think we will keep that. so it doesn't bother me that he is angry or that he denigrates the press. but they won an election. they absolutely won an election and they irvery smart and won it nair on olli, but if they are thinking of themselves as the greatest political thinkers who -- and geniuses whoever...