Headlines were back with more in half an hour right now its inside story. We understand the differences. And the similarities of cultures across the world so no matter how you take it aljazeera will bring you the news and Current Affairs the matter to you aljazeera. Deportation or indefinite detention thats the choice facing many forty thousand african refugees in israel Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu calls them infiltrators is this action even illegal this is inside story. I welcome to the program im jane they endured a dangerous and desperate journey to escape war persecution and hunger and their countries tens of thousands of refugees many from eritrea and sudan of travel to egypt seeking a better life in israel but the government calls them infiltrators and says they threaten what it calls israels jewish character its begun issuing deportation orders to the tens of thousands of african refugees and warning them either accept money on a plane ticket home or risk being jailed gets i guess in a moment but first iran cond reports from tel aviv its a common sentiment among Asylum Seekers here in israel who are being issued with deportation notices ready to stay in a prison more leave behind gabriel is another man who theories about his future hes twenty seven and from eritrea after a four year journey which involved prison time in egypt in israel hes now been handed a deportation noticed he says yes raids have dismissed his asylum claim out of hand hes being held at the whole lot detentions and well jazeera interviewed him they dont even mean i dont know why they given your rejection. That. I came to you for fiction you know im not going to get in search of. Well you know the government called out. The government in immigration experts say his case is typical but these new notices target people outside of the hollow Detention Center michel mann spicer works for an organization that helps Asylum Seekers and refugees in israel we obviously have a problem with having to send out and the refugees and Asylum Seekers to our or wander uganda or even leaving israel i mean these countries arent safer than whats happened theyre going there and theyre not being able out to stay so they go there and Research Shows the research that came out recently that they be they get there and then they have to start all over again and going to countries that are very dangerous to try and get into a situation where they can stay because its not safe to stay and wander in uganda israel has a hardline policy the first round of deportation notices has been issued to refugees and Asylum Seekers from eritrea and sudan thats about two hundred thousand people and they have sixty days to leave the country according to government figures there are some thirty nine thousand eritreans and sudanese in israel including five thousand children single men held here at the hell outta Detention Center and they were among the first to receive the deportation notices others sleep rough in parks like this one in tel aviv deportation notices will not be issued to women children fathers of children well anyone recognized as a victim of slavery well Human Trafficking but International Groups say israels deportation policy could be violating International Law imran khan how does a television. For many migrants and refugees israel is often seen as a bridge to europe and its Strong Economy makes it appealing to those searching for a better life most of these refugees have fled from war or forced military service in their countries were talking nearly sixty thousand people who. Being turned away Israeli Government says it is already expelled about twenty thousand since two thousand and five thousands of africans of entered israel illegally through its Border Crossing with egypt but the government has since built a wall to keep people out and those who do make it into israel are not welcome by the government well lets bring in our guests now in west jerusalem we have robbie sable professor at the he Read University of jerusalem in tel Aviv Sigel Rosen head of Public Policy at the tail of its based hotline for refugees and migrants and in Geneva William spengler spokesman for the United NationsHigh Commission for refugees but before we get our panelists speak to an eritrean refugee hes seeking asylum in israel his name is tech at michael and he joins us on skype from tel aviv take it michael very good to have you with us so the day has arrived what are you going to do when your deportation papers arrive. Thank you for having me first first of all our. I have no choice i have to go to prison in a sort of were to put myself through one over uganda because i think i am Asylum Seeker and as i said of israel not in other countries even israel is sending a same speakers to one and one are in the form of me not to or has not other salable or not other if it is so or me personally in other refuse im not standing to one or rwanda for safety or for we have like protection you know something i want to work so i am here or i can derail for asylum that workers of all and how come you havent been granted asylum. Its not just me its all of the people who are waiting or in limbo for the last four years after the government gave us a chance to summit our side of the question so the last four years i have no i get nothing for stuff especially for mass not because. I dont know it is the question for the government. I dont have any answer for that but i can say it is basic like russia much of a good system by the government is specifically for the people we came from a dictatorship from here syria and genocide from sudan other than that how have you been treated in israel and why is it that a country why is it that its a country that you want to remain in even if it is in a jail. Most of us for the last ten years have been welcomed by the public no basic government is going to lead to completely ignores Asylum Seeker you know so we didnt get any chance or system. To be welcomed so thats why i said because shes a place of the government to put out or to put it out in prison or in jail thats why they chose to be in jail not what you want or even know what sort of situation did you escape from in order to make it to israel and tell us a little bit about your story and ever try and judge any day. Most of all i was an athlete when i was in europe yeah and i was imprisoned by their territory without any. Crime was out anything they put me in prison and they pushed me to the army while i was out of it while i was also a student and ask them to tell me back to my education and by sport as it is me and they i thought me to be in the army if everything that. Made my just like completely different so i ran away from the military base from the western part of the country and the border went across the border to sudan because me i mean from my country and they asked me where i am wings i told them as of them i am leaving the country i am hitting saddam and they ask me to go with them to the prison i dont know because they escaped from prison escape from worse things they become must be minded and as i told you i stopped running away from them and this taught fire to kill me three times but they skip and i cant see done extensive done more than a year and done the same thing happened to me because i was listening to them and i said i dont know it from so that it was all in numbers doesnt so then i came to egypt on november seventh of and the same thing happened to me on india in egypt years ago so i was not safe in sudan it was less if you have so that i was running and like i did myself to get safe and to get protected so thats why in the first place they came to israel to have michael thank you very much for telling us your story and whats been happening to you in israel right lets bring in i guess a single rose and i should imagine that thats a story you hear all the time and i what is your response not to to what is happening. Its a very said that the government of israel came to a point to a whole decade or. Asylum seekers very badly the we are now at the point that is i want to deport the Asylum Seekers to two countries that claim they have no agreement with israel and that for years during which is that they sent all of the four thousand Asylum Seekers to disc two countries poor of that these two countries provide them no protection at all and just force them to continue the journey to look for a few jealous well so is that why so many are deciding that they would rather face jail stay in jail in israel then make that hazardous journey back in yes i mean now the Israeli Government is talking about forced deportation but since two thousand and fourteen easily already sent four thousand illegal aliens and sudanese to grant them wanda under the secret agreements so it is a well known fact by now when all Asylum Seekers in israel know that these two countries provide them no set rules and they have no possibility to stay there and this is why people say if we have no other choice we are the stain these are really prison then go to another journeyed to might end with our this william spin that not a happy picture is it. No we are very concerned about this policy and we have spoken out against it our main concern is that people who have already reached their lives to arrive in israel us as we heard are now sent to countries where they cannot find protection and they would be forced to make again long dangerous journeys risking their lives dying in some cases. And this is something that we have been able to verify recently when we interviewed about eighty Asylum Seekers from eritrea in italy who had been. Transferred onto this policy by israel to african countries and who then. Travel through countries or resell lives in places like libya and then crossed the mediterranean to find finally. Safety in italy and yet knowing this the government is pushing this onto them what sort of conversation do you have with the government. We are in constant communication with the government we have in the past cooperated closely with israeli authorities to. Resettle refugees out of israel to other countries and we have offered again to do the same thing to find solutions for these people what we want is something that works for everybody that provides safety those who are fleeing war persecution Human Rights Violations another same time works to help israel in the. Integration of refugees in that country israel has an obligation to provide protection to people fleeing war and persecution we think that most of those eritreans and sudanese who are in israel are refugees the meet the criteria for. Refugee. Finish and therefore israel has an obligation to provide that protection but we stand ready to help israel find alternative solutions for some of these refugees weve got my neighbor why does israel not want to look at these to be jumping in here when these alternative solutions posed by the un h. C. R. For example and is this actually even legal. It is legal israel like all other democratic states is obliged not to send a refugee to a country where there is a well founded fear that will be persecuted because of his race religion or political views and is a abides by this therefore we are not sending people back to sudan for instance although they came from sudan however its perfectly legal to send to other countries who are willing to accept them israel does this other countries do it its a tragedy for the of these. African refugees but it is time is war cant solve the problem isnt it israel throw your money in here only because its kind of their race and their religion the fact that they are not jewish that they are black migrant know in the last the last two years weve got deported i believe ten thousand ukrainians and theyre not black and other words these people enter the country illegally we get when they were in is where we provide them with the protection but were not obliged to absorb no countries theres no country in the world that says we will absorb all african refugees no country and certainly not i mean not certainly time is well because there are sending them to three hundred days when there are facing where they were seekers and where they are not being looked after where theyre being kicked out and they have to go back on that hazardous journey israel knows that. The legal legal quartile in this you cannot send them to a country where they will be person theres a well founded fear as i said of their being persecuted because of their religion or race or something but you can send Group Country that may not be as prosperous as germany we dont have to germany that wouldnt accept them but these are africans there that we provide them with a lot of money to help them settle down i agree they bought preferred to go to italy but thats italy is what i was perfectly entitled not to allow people who entered illegally to stay in the country again provided that we dont send them to countries where theyll be persecuted by the way most of the people who come scape in military service this is not does not come within the definition of somebody being persecuted prosecutor or persecuted for his personal views i think they are not. Directly or less lethal. Junk and you want to say something. Yes yes well first of all all western countries agree that to national silvie see the formerly. They could nies by the fijis court found the world recognizes them as live fijis because they will be persecuted if the return to their country and this is exactly the definition for the fiji in therefore which is not correct to say that they just because their National Service allow me they do is they should not receive a few just a tooth in addition usual send them to two countries the one they knew granda a deposit with these countries is not at all poor african countries the problem is that they do not grant them stuck to guns are provided fiji settles to millions of people but not to any three of those who come form israel and this is our main problem and concern because there examines all sick wait and we are now asking why these agreements the secret and in addition these countries denied that that isnt that that is even in the agreement both for and i know grand the claim that they have no secret agreement with these lael and they keep only peaking the day you refuse to accept Asylum Seekers by force so how dare you flail is sent its extremely small number of a few years and we are now talking about thirty four thousand every koreans and sudanese well sending them to two pool countries who. Have to handle it much much larger number over the few g. s and they even dont admit that they agreed to accept these people by force so i totally disagree with everything you have said and rob you could just bring up something you mentioned a bit earlier on about israel being a democracy and how its operating at the moment when israel prides itself likes to boast about being the only democracy in the region but if you look at the arab countries surrounding israel in the region they dont turn back. Refugees i mean look at jordan look at lebanon for example look at the treatment of the palestinians by the israelis that flies in the face of democracy that. Israel has a lot of millions of refugees the Jordan Jordan is very liberal but there will be our future use lebanon weve absorbed jewish refugees because i come back to another issue escaping military service is not being persecuted because of your belligerence views or political views of what we know exactly as if she says an illustrator missed a good service that i thought thats what the signal was laying out there is that its not a defy whats an aria there in a minute somebody want to escape blush mushed military. Other countries have conscription if you try to scrape it that not doesnt mean youll be persecuted because your views in other words israel accepts the fact that somebody whos been persecuted because he belongs to a certain tribal religion we will not return him to the country it was like to be persecuted the fact that hes escaped military service doesnt turn him into a refugee. Nevertheless were not sending them back to a tree are we sitting back to earth african countries that are willing to accept them and be given payment but israel cannot absorb all these refugees i know it would be nice if i could say yes all the refugees from africa who wish to come live in his will im a favor tiny little state we cant do it william what is the problem here i mean is is their feeling that that jews are not wellcome in israel now it doesnt matter im sorry non jews are not welcome in israel it doesnt matter what sort of persecution they facing at home how do you deal with this i guess racism as well in your work and when you are talking to the government. Well until two thousand and twelve really authorities were granting humanitarian status to every tree and sudanese but then the policy changed and since then very few if any. Eritreans or sudanese have been recognised as refugees i think ten eritreans have been recognised as refugees in israel and one sudanese we would expect with the situation in those countries what it is the recognition rate for these nationalities to be much higher in europe for example eritreans are ninety percent of Asylum Seekers from eritrea are recognised as refugees on average in European Countries so we would expect israel to have a much higher recognition rate for eritrea and the same goes for sudanese of course each case has to be looked at individually. Its individual circumstances. But we have concerns about these very low recognition rates and the fact that israel is not letting many of these people apply for asylum in the least what we are also concerned about the new policy to send. People who have not apply for asylum to countries in africa because we think that. People will not find protection once we once they get there they will be forced to move around looking for protection and risking their lives in that way which is. What will tell us a little bit more. Of the deal with these african countries we know that drew and it is definitely one of them i mean what is it i mean is it a case of money is it a case of corruption the fact that they taking refugees migrants that that another country doesnt want to look after. Im not an expert on african relations but as far as a no go wonder has a reputation for being a Little Country and absorbing refugees not only from miserable from other countries its welcome refugees from its neighboring countries and its willing to accept people from missouri provided the willing to go and the people up to now have been willing to go there be provided some sums to help them again i should point out that even of refuge if somebody recognizes a few gee theres no and im no obligation to absorb the only thing you can do is not foment you cannot send them back to countries ballou prosecuted but even if somebody is a refugee no country is obliged to go out and citizenship and very few countries do in other words this village near probably what others already have a job is i mean why dont you know us all even your country them into your society considering how many workers israel does take on to help out why dont you absorb these workers and the majority of them want to work the majority of them are working already its a its a legitimate its a legitimate question when there were small numbers is always doing this the moment it became known that israel was absorbing that we began to see even enormous numbers when every country is liberal most countries are liberal when its small numbers with large numbers we have to say im sorry we cannot absorb them in other words when theres a few thousand israel did this moment weve had this began receiving there were months it was even tens of thousands a month we could no longer absorb it again look at the size of his world how many refugees can be absorbed and here is will have to say im sorry we feel sorry for them well help you financially we cannot be the solution through tell me all conditions that exist in parts of africa ok sicko a lot of them are not going to leave we we heard from a guest earlier on that they can that they would rather choose jail then been sent home im just wondering what options you have now what sort of conversation are you having i mean there have been protests on the streets many israelis many jews are angry and upset about this way to from here to make sure that they are looked after. Well first of all in a lot of israelis are protesting against the government plan to deport a few g. s genuinely fijis to two countries that it is well known they dont absorb them and i was listening and hearing that they are wondering the gun they are hosting the refugees yes they do host a few years other african live fijis theres a feels to accept the fijian form is laid and we see it for the last four years this is why no one stayed to this is why all Asylum Seekers who run away form easily found themselves in i dont places all drown in the sea on the way to your we are doing our best to convince the government of israel that developmentally israelis volta those who care about these Asylum Seekers a wonder to stay with us who dont want to send them back to to send them to places well their life might be in danger in addition and we hope we still hope that the high court of justice will assist us in persuading the Israeli Government that what its doing is eagle any to easy it is totally illegal to send in Asylum Seeker refugee that is lead didnt check hes a request to a country that doesnt grant him any stuff to force him to continue in risking his life in trying to find refuge elsewhere we all hope for the we would be successful to go rosen with those final words thank you very much thank you church here robbie sable and william spender. And thanks for watching as always you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com ford slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter handle is at a. J. And side story line is jane. Learned to read so that i could read her every man. Which turns to activism with a new mission the everything like all right build software for future. Digital dissidents but within the technological. Its a race to get certain occasions when there are deals on the capitalist part of the regular series at this time on aljazeera. We understand the differences. And the similarities of cultures across the world so no matter how you take it aljazeera will bring in the news and Current Affairs that matter to aljazeera. Well if we cannot have palestina my government was certainly not allow britain to control french press time would be an outrage but then we need to find another solution before we come to blows more than a century ago britain and france made a secret deal that would influence the shape of the middle east for more than a century to come and so. Now we can durham a. Psych speak out lines in the sand at this time on aljazeera. Aljazeera. Where every. Asian stock markets plunge as wall street losses spread around the world. A lot has a secret this is al jazeera live from doha also coming up a former president of the mold leaves and