Guilty theres a top stories inside story is up next. Egypts former army chief of staff sami arnaout is said to have secret documents that could be released if hes threatened with a controversial election just weeks away how will this case be played out and is there a rift within the army this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program im im a jew him egypt has gone from one political crisis to the next since a military coup in two thousand and thirteen now with president ial elections just weeks away the situation appears to get worse last month former army chief of staff general sami ana announced he would stand for elections only to be arrested some weeks later his former aide in egypts one state auditor who was arrested on tuesday during an interview with the Huffington PostArabic Network on monday again i had said he would release secret documents that could implicate senior government leaders if a man is harmed in any way heres some of what he had to say to them and their host an opportunity given to the chief of staff summing anon to give the testimony freely and without intimidation for the record so that all things come clear before the public hears his testimony mere hearsay or supported with evidence he is in possession of documents and evidence which is not camps here in egypt you mean out of egypt yes could these pieces of evidence change the course of trials of course no doubt could they incriminate many yes going to also spoke of what he said was an assassination attempt against egypts former Vice President and longtime spy chief on much of a month in two thousand and twelve the Egyptian Government said so they man died in the u. S. From Health Problems but some have questioned that statement how did you know that the assassination attempt on im a celeb when has not been revealed we told who was behind the attempt i mean these are the facts that at the nose among the facts and need to be brought to light. The Egyptian Army fired back saying in an allegations amount to crimes aimed at casting doubt at the states credibility and its institutions at a time its forces are fighting in sinai to root out what it calls terrorism it went on to say the armed forces will use all the rights it is guaranteed by the constitution to protect National Security and preserve its honor and dignity the investigation will be referred to the relevant legislative bodies who will be taking legal action against both defendants lets take a closer look at this case retired general sam annan announced he would run for president last month with his military background many saw him as a strong challenger to president of the fatah has sisi but two weeks later the army arrested him accusing him of not receiving proper permission to run and forging documents his campaign was suspended indefinitely shortly after a mans arrest his aide and former state auditor who sham ghana was seriously injured in a suspected kidnapping attempt in cairo the interior Ministry Said good man it was heard during a dispute over a car accident lets bring in our guests joining us on skype from cairo timothy called us nonresident fellow at the harriet institute for middle east policy in london stuff a founder and chairman of the British Arab Network and author of egypt the elusive arab spring and in zurich also on skype management daughter political analyst and columnist of chronicles of the arab revolt on open democracy thank you all for joining us timothy let me start with you just how serious do you the do you think these threats by mr going in are. I mean i really believe that they play really probably do have something with respect to. Respect to the regime i think realistically given our mens position as the to be our forces you was privy to a lot of a lot of what went on and on and i mean we know that many crimes are committed so its a matter of. Who has evidence to support the information. And so theres theres really no reason not to believe that that evidence exists somewhere but also help explain why and took the risk of running when he didnt have enough internal support within the regime to guarantee his ability to stay out of prison so perhaps he feels that this is going to be with some that would have protected him. To be seen if thats actually the case or if do you have any idea of what kind of secret documents the mr going into may be referring to and who possibly they could implicate. Firstly i would say that. Hes probably one of the most credible Civil Servants in egypt and in he uncovered the billions of dollars. Disappearing and to secure accounts i think he must know something because this man has got huge credibility and he doesnt say anything. Which really doesnt have a basis for it and this is why he was one of the top assistance for general a man and and then no doubt knows a lot what was going on particularly during the uprising two thousand and eleven what the army was passing some thugs and some security people. Most cohering citizens to destroy their pricing and as well snipers from that there was a buildings he knows very well and he can implicate some senior generals who are. Alive and probably very active in running egypt at the moment magid egyptian media is now reporting the samurai mans lawyer and son are denying these claims by mr going into any idea why. Well the well its really very hard to tell but they might be subjected to a pressures i mean in the end we dont know what they have and its also a kind of a kind of important too to consider that the crimes committed were a matter of systematic policy so i dont know how he can actually diabelli this information without implicating himself so thats also kind of an open point for me i dont know what he knows but at this moment the situation is very fluid and its very hard to tell. He knows something but what he knows and to which extent is he actually able to reveal without actually. Implicating himself remains. An open point timothy a sham going and his family is now saying that he has been detained that he has been arrested since making these remarks so if thats the case does that lend credence does that lin validity to the idea that the army or the president is sisi in egypt that they are concerned about these documents and that these documents actually exist. Well i mean theyre theyre in a kind of a catch twenty two position right now and also i dont think you know play this hand very very intelligently. I dont doubt that hes a well intentioned individual but the problem is if you have if you do have documents implicating. The top members of the regime and they can demonstrate that it is some sort of crime. The value in the threat isnt doing it privately if you say publicly that i have documents proving that youre a terrible person and if you dont do x. Y. And z. Im going to release them and then they do x. Y. And z. Without touching a banana then in effect theyre conceding that arguments are real and that they are in fact terrible people or whatever. Working over there by linking rights whatever the crimes delineated the documents which up so if they leave them alone there theyre actually kind of also conceding that the documents may have created its its it i dont really under i dont understand his thinking in terms of saying this publicly what it meant a lot more sense and from that probably well in that interview his family and it talks about the third party and he mentions invisible fingers that guided events during egypts revolution who exactly is he referring to many of egypt believe that thats potentially a reference to military intelligence that at a time when the fatah has sisi was leading that institution what do you say to that i think putting pieces together just points to general sisi personally and his closest advisors i think its a very damning. Issue particularly and the peace coming now that the military particularly military intelligence and general intelligence have worked extremely hard to undermine their pricing in many ways using propaganda and using. Very hard and very cruel tactics like shooting at people killing people where surely snipers were hitting along the brains of people i think it should be exposed and i think. The papers we should know we should actually see these people released to speak to us openly generally good name must the good name our general. General. Sami a man they should be released and should not be mistreated because they obviously had their house been ransacked the family of general sami are now on been detained and that is says a lot of things that secy panicked. Magic sam and of course has been in the news a lot this past month i mean he was seen as a potentially very viable threat to the for the his c. C. In the president ial elections here is a former military man that said to have broad support among some members high up in the military in egypt. But the fact the matter is his candidacy was derailed hes been detained where do things stand for sam and then or now especially in light of what his name is saying well its very difficult at the moment because if they release him then there will be a lot of. A lot of questions about the documents now and what do they know so this is very. Usual out today. So his future is very vague and its very difficult now to deal with them and i think he has no choice but to actually deny this and to reach some sort of an agreement because he does not have the support within the military that would actually be lend him the power to be able to. Kind of. Get himself out of this predicament building on what majid said timothy i want to ask you the fact that sami and none seem to have so much substantial support among some military men top tier military men in egypt and was seen by some to be a potential threat to the candidacy of of the fatah has sisi does that mean that president c. C. May have been losing important support in his president ial bid and does that also point to a potential rift or schism within the armed forces in egypt. Well i think that you have in the house with lee and decisively handled sending out and announcement running for president. Some of the talk about schisms within the armed forces and how bad if they are maybe Wishful Thinking right it may be the case that while there are some people that arent terribly pleased and so you see that my like i meant so the to go to the point where they would actually support like that change and like bring things to a hat publicly i dont i dont think that there is that many high ranking people who are for that and how things have gone kind of indicate thats the case which is i think also signaled theyre hoping to send by being so flagrant and the in the way that they are theyre handling this election not really allowing for any serious dialogue but the threat that i meant bose wasnt that it was going to come president of egypt thats not a realistic prospect the threat that iran posed was that having somebody of his stature former chief of the armed forces then two months criticizing both sisi and the role of the institution the military in politics which he did in this Campaign Announcement that could do a lot of damage to the standing of both sisi and the military as a whole i mean he really went for the the third rail which is to criticize the role the institution the military government thats thats even riskier than criticizing c. C. M. Self. And so by going that far and the prospects of him doing that for months and up to the election i do know that for me is probably the biggest threat that you pose and why they decided that they need a lot much more if i want to talk also about the Intelligence Services in egypt you have military intelligence you also have general intelligence now president sisi he was formerly in charge of military intelligence recently he replaced khalid photos the who would lead general intelligence since december two thousand and fourteen with cameron who is close to c. C. And was a retired army general so what does that say to you about the state of affairs in the Intelligence Services and about any potential rivalries between the different branches. There has always been very very between the military intelligence and general intelligence bearing in mind the bosses im a military controlled and controlled by generals from the military but certainly general intelligence were not supporting c c thats why he rushed and put his head of office. As an interim head of general intelligence last few weeks i think there is some turbulence in the military establishment obviously there is a problem because i think. General annan have censored a huge discontent among the public thats why he appealed to the public here peter civilians here appealed to. Several movements and egypt to get out of the military rule thats why he probably angered some military ranks by siding with the public which i think was a very clever think although he paid a price for it and i think its very important to make sure that has not been hurt i think they should be pressure from the major powers on sisi to make sure this man is released and hes not been. Badly treated or mistreated in prison and he should not be imprisoned start was he or going in there or anybody else because theres so many people in prison magic building on what said there do you think that there will be pressure put on president sisi on the Egyptian Government by allies of egypt to release these former candidates because u. S. Secretary of state Rex Tillerson was just in cairo and we didnt hear any concerns publicly from him about this about the state of affairs in egypt when it comes to jailing political opponents imprisoning journalists human rights workers anything like that. As you i dont really see this happening i would be very surprised if there is if there is international. Pressure as you well know the human rights records of the regime is absolutely horrendous. So and then is not the first and he wont be the last and human rights now its especially related to to the middle east is not a decisive. Factor in determining western Foreign Policy so i would be extremely shocked if there is any form of International Pressure no i dont see this happening actually to meet with these looming president ial elections next month that more and more critics and observers are calling an outright farce and saying that this is not going to be democratic or free or fair in any way what is the egyptian public what are they saying about it what is their sentiment towards these elections they believe that these will be carried out in a correct way in a fair and free manner. Of course not i mean Everybody Knows its a sham i think that i mean the egyptian public knew that before it started the world was coming to you know coming to see that as well but i mean nobody really thought that sisi was going to actually let his that his second term was a nice word carol that was never something that you know the vast majority of egyptians never believed. I mean the government is going to have its way to make it very clear that theres there will be no real election come art but even before they had done anything there werent a lot of people suspecting a serious competition. And they had they have little reason to expect such a thing given the repression that weve seen for years. So now i mean that its a foregone conclusion the question is what will the regime to do up turnout so that its not a matter its not too embarrassing but beyond that i mean they you know they may trigger something camp that they would run somebody who is already campaigning for sisi if not running against him but beyond that theyve removed everybody from the election basically well. At this point you you essentially only have one other candidate running against president a c. C. You have a very obscure politician named more some mostafa why even allow him to run at this point what does sisi have to gain by that phrase a i think sisi. In a big trap and he doesnt know what to do and getting someone whos very. Not not known in public nobody ever heard his name i met him accidentally once in cairo about ten twelve years ago and hes a very lightweight if for no wait at all i think sissy is in a big trouble particularly his moment came with the arrest and detention of general and then and beginning and their families i think he is in a big big trouble and the world good to see that because egypt is very important we dont want to ship to fail as a country we want to egypt to survive as a state and i think this carry on is not going to help the matters the public in egypt is very unhappy the country is not transparencies as many saudis and sim prisons intimidation in daily basis people being killed. It is just a country cannot run this where week to week magic if sam and does indeed have these incriminating documents that. Claims that he has why would he not have used them by now well lets not forget that he is a military man and he was the second in command so it really depends on what are in those documents as i said it might actually implicate him himself because this was not only the kind of. The one off. Incident it was a matter of systematic policy soul and it was the military. Establishment i mean. A man is not a hero himself he was part of this regime and he remains a part of it so we just have to see if those documents exist whats in those documents and how far is he willing to release them this is his kind of last resort if he really has to but since its public now the threat has kind of lost its potency so we just have to see whats going to happen now timothy whats the level of public support right now in egypt for presidency. I mean its its doubly declined since its been twenty thirteen. But he still enjoys a fair bit of support within the country i mean theres its not necessarily that people love him theres also theres some people who were those other people who just feel like hes doing it a difficult job that has to be done. I mean i spoke to one person who said hes going to go but just because. Despite the fact we strongly disliked him that he felt like the projects that hes undertaken needs to be completed i think that the question about what larry you know needs to be couched in its context which is that in the public sphere in media you cant really criticize and so this is a its untested popular it which is again why im campaigning for two months was threatening would be an opportunity for somebody to actually criticize he publicly and forcefully. In a way that hadnt been the case previously and so it could really it could really fracture that very fragile popularity that he that he still maintains to some extent. You know thats how i would look at the his public. Magid im going to the last point here the seventh anniversary of the egyptian revolution has come and gone and many people in egypt feel that the situation is far worse now than it was even under rule what are your thoughts on that as far as where egypt is right now under the rule of presidencies certainly i would say that is true things have not improved and it seems that the trajectory is towards of the kleine rather than improvement and its not just in the democratic record it is in the human rights field the thin the political field the security the economy there is massive mismanagement everywhere and it seems that corruption has become a matter of state policy so sadly i have to say that that is the case well thanks to all our guests were going to have to leave it there timothy call this stuff and magic man door and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website at aljazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a. 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