A clear message in the 1st polling since the protest movement began. Even before the polls closed it was clear that this was an extraordinary election and a record breaking day for hong kong elections the highest voter turnout ever over 70 percent of registered voters cast their ballots after nearly 6 months of at times violent demonstrations the polling was seen as a way for voters to officially take sides in this deeply divided city of 7000000 back the probation candidates in the Hong Kong Government or those who support greater democratic freedoms for hong kong in line with the protesters who have been fighting to push back on what they see as increasing control of Mainland China you know. This election meant a lot to hong kong the older generation who. The Younger Generation hopes for change. Its usually a sleepy election to select a low level local government positions but many woke up early to vote as there was concern that unrest could mean the polling could be cut short for the prodemocracy camp is about a vote of confidence on no confidence on the carrier government and on the excess use of police force against protesters but a probation camp there was say this is also a defacto referendum on the protests and the violence there was an on easy calm during the few days leading up to the election just a week after some of the worst violence in these nearly 6 months of protests thats mainly because both sides knew this election is critical to their cause. Kongs leader kerry lamb while casting her vote recognize the challenging times for the city and the importance of peaceful elections. Andrew choo won his 4th term as District Councillor the prodemocracy candidate was brutally attacked earlier this month parts of his ear were bitten off. Howard you mustnt be so it can have a very strong and clear message to your method for the whole governing debate of forward here and also the International Community that we hold on people as they stand firm together we try to keep on fight for our freedom and democracy so even though more people voted than ever before and this is a significant election its unclear if the victory for the prodemocracy parties will ease the violence or help to mend the divisions here got high level al jazeera phone call. Leaked classified documents from chinas government several field new details about the massed attention of ethnic minorities mostly muslim weekers Rights Groups estimate that more than a 1000000 people have been locked up in camps in the seen john region it includes Intelligence Briefings that described by police use a data system based around Artificial Intelligence to select who ought to be detained at least 56 people have died in flooding and landslides in northwestern kenya emergency workers are struggling to reach the affected villages but bridges and roads have been swept away making rescue efforts more difficult yes defense secretary mark asper has far the navys top official as practiced against Richard Spencer over allegations that spencer proposed a deal with the white house behind his back the matter has to do with the Navy Seal Edward Gallagher he was accused of war crimes and his case has been championed by President Donald Trump and at least 4 people have died since flooding thats hit the south of france hundreds of people have been forced to leave the quote theres a region at least 2 have been killed and one is missing as high floodwaters swamp cars and turned roads in survivors those are the headlines stay with us and aljazeera the news continues after studio b. Unscripted. Sometimes were right as i think were really close that. Entire relationship with the past is full of. What are my guide in trials is the lets make friends die you my me to mr bike. I once through trial for allegedly holding off a Radio Station at gunpoint in defense of democracy i believe war is a human problem and human being and youre quite right to say i got myself involved my name is wallace. Im a turkish british novelist and like every storyteller im drawn to stories but also silence the things we cannot talk about i have multiple attachments just like all of us to on multiple natasha months means multiple stories i am in a shock. I felt i knew a live suffolk even before i met or like when i juror shes often of loggerheads with her countrys government through her works to give a voice to those well off and on her i knew about wallace as the 1st african author to win the nobel prize for literature see it really was the recognition. Of creativity which goes back centuries but also in his role as a defender of healing rights and freedom of speech i was looking forward to having an open conversation on the scuzzy should start out both timely and. In a verse so close to. What unites us makes us. Well its such an honor to share the same stage with him you and i have been talking about the art of storytelling and what it means since states polarized worlds and i always thought especially for authors for storytellers who come from wounded the marcoss such as turkey nigeria egypt pakistan venice or the brazil the list is so long and its getting longer i dont think as writers from such mother lands we have the luxury of being nonpolitical. We can say im only going to write my stories and not really think about whats happening outside the window but one thing that draws my attention is especially after the year 2016 i think more and more western authors too begun to feel maybe the urgency to speak up because weve seen how country after country democracy can die that history can go backwards it doesnt always necessarily go forward and you of course spoken so powerful in eloquently about the need to be vocal in our could says the man what happens to the human souls if we do not criticize tyranny im very glad i was starting with the very language of the storyteller let me use this approach to say that. Nora is just a star to have a storyteller as a historian is a psychologist is a philosopher is a builder is a creative person so im very happy identifying ourselves yet about our storytellers you started off on a very difficult soul searching subject which is what is my responsibility as a writer or does yours i dont see any special responsibility for a writer be you on the expounding behold. Of his or her community of humanity in general i know that i agree with you that some of us do dont have that luxury and i resent it i resent the fact that we are burdened by that weight of history i resent that because there is something which existed before but also the colonial experience its kind of defining as 2nd class humanity and yet we know you and i know that yes we do feel that we have to transcend a set. Wrong positioning which has been given us by external forces and then after that after we chase them out what happens. We got our internal colonisers and then you have to fight these new orders all over again to distort the history of our society our past in order to and from themselves permanently without a book or the next i think sometimes we writers especially from the quote unquote developing world 3rd wall africa i think were really close that. There we love to take on this burden i see no other explanation for it. It is quite irrational i agree but also perhaps of course as storytellers we chase stories we chase words but i equally believe we are drawn to silence the things we can not talk about easily in a society at a given time and that includes taboos political to was helpful to. Us just to be able to ask why is it that we can talk about this issue is important for writers to ask questions not try to guide to answers i was intrigued by what you said and it did resonate with me because i often think turkey has collective uneasy our entire relationship with the past is full of ruptures and because of the vacuum now its being filled with either alter nationalistic interpretations of history or religious interpretations of history where you cant talk about the complexity of history and if you want to draw attention to that you can easily be labeled as a traitor as a betrayer in just just a cognitive flexibility to ask how would i feel had i been a minority member in that period for instance just to focus on individuals is very difficult because the official history has no human beings in it being a novelist in a country like turkey is a bit like being slapped on the one cheek and being kissed on the other cheek at the same time. And im saying this because clearly these are lonsway i would sigh heavy so every rights in this to anyone who deals with words knows that because of something you rights you might use the gets into trouble but on the other hand perhaps padauk sickly in countries where i would son not that easily written pronounced maybe maybe they much even more i watched a film or decades ago and as we speak i just flashed across my mind it had to do with the colonization of the americas it depicted in it of Indian Village and in the village there was a no obviously gay individual who lived. In a hot and who related more with women when it was accepted like that in the community and that it was an hour in that same on that same continent probably in that same part of the world you have those who are. Who are saying that if i this is a saying you know nothing about biology of human and. Not to me you know nothing about hormones nothing at all about the exploration of the human tendencies and there they are now stigmatizing and this is where the right i believe yeah especially in the socalled subtle societies the writer has a special responsibility at least has a tours to rewrite the story conception just like that filmmaker up your sleeve deliberately inserted this kind of domestic scene back on trust you come to a country like nigeria and within this decade the legislators who are all the problems are sailing by jury has the power but did not get cetera et cetera took time off the postle law. Which included phrases like the expression of affection between 2 people of the same sex is going to and i asked myself when i wrote other time what your business or what happens with consenting adults you dont have in our problems or goal already and so you have the politicians for their own purposes. Rewriting and or. Imposing their own newly acquired prejudices believe brit distortions of humanity in the name of progress they do they do rewrites so many things they rewrite history religion and also law and they they pass the laws when i when i look at turkey in particular of course there are so many women who are very vocal and strong in all areas of life from academy up to medicine to the Business World but in one theres one field in which women are very few in numbers and thats politics mostly dominated by very conservative very religious. Men one of the laws that theyve recently tried to pass actually involves reducing the sentence of rapists if they agree to may their underage victims because from their according to their mentality in a way the rapist is doing a favor to the family and all they care about is this other concept of honor and of course there was a huge backlash from from the society and then they took it back but there is no im mentioning is this we need we need women to support each other we need a very strong women small and that goes hand in hand with minorities without g. B. T. Rights we need a Strong Civil Society when society is divided when women are. And especially i think the only thing that benefits from that is patriarchy itself and i am concerned because earlier we talked about have country after country weve seen a decline of democracy an erosion of democracy and i think whenever theres more nationalists and theres more religious fundamentalism theres also an increase in sexism theres also an increase in homophobia all of these things are related weve touched the national in on the use your bar. I would writers do with fiction with history and so on you know what. Politicians more afraid of history of fiction and the really relevant or the reason why i ask this because i come from a society where we discovered quote. I think not too long ago that history had been taken off the curriculum yeah and that it was a shock for me. And so i ask myself well you havent been able to destroy fiction but the hard history of the disposal the go read of history so i asked was a what really afraid of yeah and i think its precise there were stories and theres a story telling can can make a difference as i was listening to i was thinking one of the books that i read very early on in life and left a big impact on me it was the works of iran which. From the balkans when i was reading his work for the 1st time as a High School Student it occurred to me there were like 2 peasants talking the talk about the genesis system which was the heart of the Ottoman Empire in a way that the military and so at school what i had learned was who were a great empire wherever we went we brought civilisation but then there were these 2 balkan peasants talking about that institution and one of them was saying thanks to the system of poor children were able to get education and go all the way up and become a sears and the other one was saying are you sure because of the system they forgot their identity they were converted to islam without their will you know and they never saw their families again so yes they did get education but at the expense of what as a reader of lover of storytelling fiction i understood what the writer was trying to do you can you shift your angle its a bit stuck cognitive you know flexibility and try to see the same story through the eyes of another person and then another and keep doing this until we realise theres no such thing as history with a capital hage imposed on us but there are all these realities and complexities that we honestly need to talk about if you want to be truthful in the northern people should we so with europe. Have the most one or 2 questions youre both storytellers which youve spoken about but youre also activists in role models and change makers and i wanted to ask you both if there was a specific moment saw period in your lives when you came to embrace the next step to your role as as change makers and if so what gave you the courage to step into those shoes you 1st if you feel. I dont see myself as a courageous person at all honestly im just a curious person and i dont want to lose that curiosity about life details the connectivity with fellow human beings maybe i would maybe cause all the way back to my childhood because i realize when i look back there were so many times when i felt like the other myself you know a bit like inside or outside kind of clinging to their heads trying to be long so to me it comes very naturally to give more voice to people who have been other night sed and i think in my work i always want to give more voice to the silenced and try to bring the periphery to the center. That matters to me but also maybe part of the reason is the way i was brought up i grew up without seeing my father and i was raised by 2 completely different women my mom as they westernized very modern urban their action well educated and my grandmother probably would take all the other books as you know more eastern very spiritual less educated i mean its very wise and shes a woman who had been denied a proper education but she firmly believed in the education of girls so to me so watching those sisterhoods their solidarity the way they supported each other had a huge impact on me you know they didnt agree on everything but they supported each other so i think observing people despite the circumstances how we need to empower each other how we need to connect with each other and how we can all learn from those songs that left a huge huge impact on me as i was growing up. I told our hosts. The smallman a little more i know her i know already story well have a good conversation i know her. And reading about her i just saw myself also the ability the temperament to be an affected by ones environment while we have the other for good or evil in a few days is im going back to niger and believe me right up to the time i get on the plane i ask myself what on earth are you going back to my blasted country for isnt it isnt life more peaceful here what form that is pushing you i just dont know but ill give you an example of something which is affected me tremendously. And thank goodness this example comes from a child a girl child i name is near cherie book she was one of the School Pupils who were kidnapped by boko haram in nigeria. And they were ons and but when they were leaving the fundamentalist terrorists insisted that there must renounce their religion before they were released all of them did except one. Shaariibuu and i asked myself what was it that imperiled the child to say no like Nelson Mandela did when he was given a conditional release she was between 14 and 15 said about taiji. No longing for freedom going in for environment from iran meant what was in the pushed i dont just ignore. And stay behind i feel scared behind shes still a prisoner to tibet i think its the same impulse that drives us as writers and activists that something intolerable on our except a ball in our environment i would just have to say no its something we just i just had to miss so much well written a long poem to her. When you were put on trial french insulting turkishness sent in 2006 i wonder if you could you sort of say a little more about that and also im particularly interested in what you wrote when you were acquitted you felt that the trial was an uprising against authoritarianism so you had some hope for turkey at that point and i just wondered whether you had you know whether you still felt hopeful in the the circumstances that you explain to us earlier turkey is such a complex country doesnt. I dont think it can be simplified no country can of course but it it harbors so many conflicts this government has been in power for such a long time and when they came to power a bit like in hungary they came to power with lots of promises of reform including supporting turkeys e. U. Membership Peace Process with minorities with kurds with armenians making a new constitution that would be more liberal more political stake so the 1st years were shaped by that narrative and today only sug to say this but turkey has become the worlds leading jailer of journalists surpassing even chinas records now do we do i have hope about my country of course and i also know that the government and the people are not the same thing when we talk about swarms of democracies i think its always very important to bear in mind the sobs the tragedy of land such as ours is that oftentimes the people are ahead of their governments and yet we dont hear their voices we dont hear the complexity of the Civil Society thats why i think its very important to be very vocal and clear when it comes to criticizing or for italian governments and bringing up issues on human rights and freedom speech especially these are not negotiable issues postpone the issues we need to be very loyal to to defending human rights but at the same time connect with the people you know connect with minorities in our society the women in that society the youth in the society and never to isolate the people of high this is a question for mr singh got. I read that in the 1960 s. You hailed a Radio Station at a gun point for electoral fraud i was wondering where do you draw the line in terms of political protest 1st of all. I usually dont believe in nigerian justice i was acquitted in court and here you are accusing me again after ive been acquitted by that i mean one of my supposed to do next just to satisfy everybody im innocent. I think all of us whether we like it or not we develop especially in circumstances like ours we develop a philosophy of violence its always a very personal one its in a conviction in a restlessness the desire to be a peace with yourself you cannot sit down and say youre writing a poem wearing next door somebodys being raped or violated in some way you put down but you can write about it afterwards but you know you are compelled to take action at that point or you cease to be a human being. And one of the issues that i was hoping we could talk about is also where to draw the line between freedom of speech or hate speech i find it particularly difficult because all my adult life i have fought for and believes in freedom of speech and one of the things that worries me on both sides of the atlantic particularly among young people this need for safe spaces and vetoing speakers was faith different to yours. Is becoming a bigger and bigger issue and i am worried that if were only surrounded by people who think like us like us dress up like us thats a very narcissistic existence so i think the point where i draw a line is the kind of hate speech that incites violence that targets minorities people who are in a vulnerable position that is Something Else but although i want to have multiple opinions discussions open spaces and especially to hear the voices of people whose voices have been denied so far. People like to think that their nationalism is not as ugly as someone elses nationalism one of the major fear or when i was an exile was that the bard got me produce or been deterred wanted to marburg the opposite of kindness is not necessarily evil is the moment we become numb desensitized and indifferent. Aljazeera is Investigative Unit goes undercover in the caribbean we dont use the word bribe would you use a token of appreciation exposing trade and diplomatic passports today struck down hard on the partial good will of them involving some of the regions highest officials matter of the work. Among. Aljazeera investigations diplomats for failed. Hello im Martin Dennis in doha with the top stories here at outers era early results from hong kongs District Council elections so major gains for prodemocracy candidates voters turned out in record numbers after almost 6 months of protests that have calls the territorys worst political crisis in decades hong kongs leader carol lam said shed respect the results and would listen to the public with an open mind sarah clarke is in hong kong with more its a huge of morale boost for the prodemocracy front as well as the protesters it also has implications for the lives of council this is of the the pound hong kongs Effective Parliament here in the city because 117 of these District Councils are selected to stand on an Election Committee which plays a crucial part in voting for hong kongs next leader now that election will be in 2020 a kerry lamb is very unpopular at the moment but certainly if the prodemocracy groups in the prodemocracy parties have the majority in his district elections you could assume that a large part of those 117 District Council selected will be from that side of politics lead classified documents from chinas government have revealed needy tales about the mass attention of ethnic minorities mostly muslim week has Rights Groups estimate that more than a 1000000 people have been locked up in camps in the jang region the documents include Intelligence Briefings that describe how police use a data system based around Artificial Intelligence to select who ought to be detained. At least 56 people have died in flooding and landslides in northwestern kenya emergency workers are struggling to reach affected villages. U. S. Defense secretary mark after has followed the navys top official he acted against Richard Spencer over allegations that spencer proposed a deal with the white house behind his back the matter has to do with a navy seal accused of war crimes whose case is being championed by President Trump more than 60 doctors say they fear wiki leaks founder Julian Assange could soon die in prison they say hes suffering from psychological problems including depression and a serious shoulder and they want him transferred to a hospital in the maximum security belmarsh prison in london rajab today those are the latest headlines from us here at aljazeera coming up next it should you be unscripted. Being a novelist in a country like turkey is a bit like being slapped on the once again on the other at the same time nora that is just the start of a story teller as a historian is a psychologist is a philosopher when society. Polarize people the benefit from. The use of identity is one which. Not admit it applies not just to writers of course. In fact its out there heart. Of the sort of dialect nationalist di lemma which plagues europe for this of identity has become seems to become a critical issue. Generally in the world and yet there are human beings who transcend not always in a positive way the nation for instance certain religions certain religionists feel that theyre all more and that their identity should be seized. Related to. Through their religion ultimately a writer like myself especially who draws so much from the society and of course whos a global wonder a sponsor periodical the who i know high seas by sell my subsidies or i know why that is but what really a my 2 to the other m i defined by mission a watch. Whats your response i was i think im a bit more peripatetic. Right over our marshes but how do you see as i did today or you see it in your book you know its its its a question that matters a lot to me because i do not think that we have to have a monolithic identity despite what they say to us theres a lot of pressure on so many of us to belong into one single box and stay in that box you know youre muslim just be a muslim i you this just be that and stay there forever but i think as human beings we have multiple belongings and its worth fighting for that multiplicity when i look at myself i realize very clearly of course on the attached to stumble and i carry it with me wherever i go but im also very attached to the age in the balkans i carry in my soul so many elements from the middle east my european by birth by choice the values that i share over the years i became a londoner a brit a citizen and despite what our politicians say today i think i would like to think of myself as a world citizen and the global soul why cant i be multiple things people like to think that there nationalism is not as ugly as someone elses nationalism that there nationalism is actually the right type of nationals and that is a civilized nationalism and i dont i dont believe in that i think the core of nationalism is quite ugly it is divisive it is based on a distinction between us versus them and their assumption that us is somehow better than them and it takes one financial crisis or takes one political crisis for that core to surface so when i say that i do make a distinction between loving your country loving your culture you know being attached emotionally it is a. Youthful feelings as an author every time you know i have written a book in turkey people said oh short of a couple armenians that she must be sick that i mean that i wrote another book lets say another story they say oh she must be a secret jew emission must be a secret code because all these conspiracy theories in places where there is no democracy but underlying is the assumption that if its not your story why should you even care you know if its not your identity why would you even try to write about someone elses story and i think we need to be very aware of that and very critical of that. In west africa some years ago. The Nigerian Government decided to expel all gummy arms from nigeria. In fact as an expression in niger today called done i must go. And i phone by solve. Personally violated i felt that if i listen ive taken place on my behalf in my name yeah and i found it very repugnant in fact in my university my department became a kind of a refuge and i defied anyone to go and touch them or was it because i could not understand why there should be such a distinction amounting to the right of expulsion between them and me. And weve had that experience all over the continent and as soon as theres a slight problem created by ms government mismanagement of economy the immediate impulse is to look for scapegoats of cause or 1st line scapegoats those who are quote unquote foreign as well and of course see whats been happening in south africa the amounting even to the link chain the pursuit i mean lynching of a foreigner as before mozambique affected at one time zimbabwe nigerians of course see this leaves one in such a weak position when one now house to decry the ultra nationalism and the waves are which are sort of taking over europe effect in politics immigration policy. Even the internal governance in which the the machinery of the government is arranged primarily against. Foreigners what are my sort of guide in my im trying to let nations die that humanity may survive it. Problem i have is i dont know what will take its place missions will become surely long in the tooth to me. Explode bent to stew over the joke but they all seriousness is a safe we have no memory as if we have forgotten and im not talking about history that took place long time ago and that effects everything there is a complacency as well. Served us a lot as if some parts of the world were more solid lanse more safe and steady you really didnt have to worry about democracy in those countries most of the western world was seen in the sway you really didnt have to worry about human rights or freedom of speech or womens rights or minority rights you would have to foot think about these issues in liquid lance outside the western world and i think after the year 2016 that perception has been shattered to pieces but still there is this assumption that some countries are inoculated against the far the rise of far right germany was thought to be one of those countries because people thought after experiencing the horrors of fascism people would never make the same mistake ever again and now for the 1st time since the 2nd world war we have a far right group within the German Parliament and of course sweden was regarded as another inoculated country because its the welfare states and the bustin of social democracy now we have the rise of the far right in sweden and the u. K. Was thought to be inoculated against the rise of the far right why because its of it has very different traditions it doesnt even have a written constitution a very strong hold of you know liberal democracy and so many other historical reasons but again we cant say it why it will never happen again and we are seeing the rise of. Hate speech hate attacks particularly targeting minorities immigrants suddenly this toxic language in politics made it ok for people to say things were that were unsaleable until recently. And yet i sense this contradiction in me. So does for instance on the african continent. I feel closer. To africans in the diaspora and i feel to be my grub region in north africa. I feel closer affinity definitely and i find myself far more interested in the fortunes cultural of course retentions in brazil for instance where you have the your rebbe your people in cuba etc i know i have a kind of visceral connection even in sports i must confess im a racist when it comes to sports im interested im interested internist only wants a rematch or we lost williams playing. Golf i dont care for golf but any time i hear tiger woods name i want to know has got to go on. So that is that and i wonder whether we should be thinking more in terms of cultural blocks but definitely i confess to a contradiction in me that what i say is that i can contradiction is the thing is fearful to feel that kind of attachment emotional belongings and i dont associate that with you know nationalistic way of thinking or any more reductionist way way of thinking so the opposite i find find it important that we feel those emotional attachments thats why i insist on making a maybe distinction between patches and nationalism i think the truth isnt is way too important to leave to the nationalists i also think faith for instance is way too important to leave to the religious i think politics is way too important to leave to career politicians and im curious about your views on the language tour how does it feel to write in english and did you get any reaction because i did get a lot of reaction for i do write in both english and turkish but more and more i write in english and its difficult to explain this to people sometimes only think in nationalistic terms because for the. Its always an either or choice so if you writes in english it means you have abandoned your essence your Mother Tongue and yes i think this is the in which so many of us dream in what more than one language and so when i look at my writing i realize if im writing about melancholy sadness longing i find it easier to express distinction talking but humor irony in particular and much easier in english. But theres no question at all for me language is both a vehicle its its a technicality for use at the same time it has this extension and to be a repository of ideas of history of philosophy so the pope for me id seen a reason why he wanted to come out have its cake and eat it. And thats why i talk about being multilingual for me this is the ideal if you walk the streets of nigeria for instance the start of english and up in europe switching to broken english for me is an expression of. Of the complexity of the thinking process but its instinct if you dont find the expression. In one language you switch naturally to the language from which the idea derived originally of course i got this flack also why do you write in english lesson i told him english is in fact the language oh cool make us you know i do when i want to take over and take over you know control of our lives to speak in english so you can get anything more basic than the sudden transformation of yourself from even a partial democracy to outright dictatorship but anyway you know i think its about time we brought in many of us go through their audiences. I was wondering if you have ever felt the states particularly frustrating 8 about the lack of impact given the rising. Erosion of democracy and shrinking civic space so do you think that the language and narrative of human rights defenders including yourselves some water should try and change to reach out more effectively to the people that currently seems to be lured more by the demography by the language of the far right national the simple priests in this age we all need to become more engaged citizens to me thats incredibly important and theres one thing that worries me when i read the memoirs all right so some points who have survived the worst calamities in Human History including the holocaust almost all of them are saying something similar theyre saying bad things happen not because people are bobs well some people but relatively speaking their numbers are small and so theyre saying the opposite of goodness is not necessarily the bobbins the opposite of kindness is not necessarily evil. The opposite of goodness is in fact moments is the moment we become numb desensitized and indifferent that is a very dangerous turning point because upon that ground you can sow the seeds of all kinds of racism all kinds of sexism and xenophobia once enough people become numb so it matters to speak about human rights and each others stories but youre so right something is the change in our style as well sometimes populist demagogues are better in terms of addressing peoples emotions than their liberal counterparts its so dualistic they talk about the people versus the elite but i think more and more of us deliberately need to start using the words the words in the break them into pieces so i deliberately use populist elite because populist and have a problem with elitism as long as they are the elites when theyre not really criticizing its the man many of them are the elite in fact when we take a closer look and the 2nd thing is they think of the people as a homogenously whole but they feel they divide people into real people versus on real people people who really matter 1st as people who dont matter that months much so all im trying to say is the problems are real but populism is the wrong answer to those real problems and we need to do a better job in terms of addressing those real problems and remind each other and ourselves that human rights must. Thank you wanted to ask you both about your periods of exile when youve been unable to return to nigeria or to turkey for your own safety but yet you continued to write about these places what is it like being so intimately connected to a place so absorbed emotionally intellectually in a place but physically separated and how has that influenced your writing i found it very difficult to accept that i was in exile very very difficult especially the major one the 2nd one which was forced on me and it was actually a life and death scape for escapade if you like i think carried. That but sense of belonging with me so deeply that one of the major fears i had when i was in exile was that they might get me in exile because ive been declared wanted to live by that the dictator are was actually setting up a consulate to hunt down the opposition but. From peace this is a self revolution was that i began looking for a place where i would be buried if i was got outside my fear was not so much being killed outside but hopkinson my family or some well meaning friends take my body back why are the dictator was there now thats how you know i found out one would come by the way i was at peace with myself said good dont take my body back if that conduct that is still in charge i dont want him trampling all over my corpse. I still laugh at myself so look at you and sort of buy more weeks for disguising yourself youre paying the money to go out but thats exactly you know what to do its part and parcel of. A once composition. Does the sociable to call changes in your countrys interest you for example still affect your writing style as much as it used to when you started writing its so so connected with the previous question isnt it exile sometimes selfimposed exile can we have multiple homes multiple homelands can make complete they ever this connect from our homeland which i think i dont think its possible. Just the opposite perhaps you even follow it more closely when youre abroad you you care about every single detail so its a very very fragmented existence in a way youre always a bit of an insider outsider. Which could be a good position for arts or the art of storytelling because youre enough of an insider to feel attached to places many places but maybe a little bit of codes of distance just a little bit of distance maybe to see things from a different perspective but if its a good situation position for art i think its a very long the place for the artist you know youre always in between them and i and i carry that feeling with me to be honest the number of people from all over the world who have started to feel as if they were in some kind of exile you know that number is increasing more and more people have started to get worried about their mother lance you know they cant recognize the changes that are happening even when they live in those countries so it happens to me a lot when i give talks there are people you know in the audience they say i come from minnesota and i come from brazil i cant recognize my country either nor can i you know were all asking what happened to my sweet country i was wondering how you think the colony our minds to have an impact within our culture and ball possible changes you think that we could bring to ourselves us people from Different Countries who leave you know in europe or in countries that are not our countries. To Better Society in the future. The culture is a powerful weapon i know but at the same time cultural come through very very feeble. In face of some really intractable situations in nigeria or use the expression or in those descent into a. Of inhumanity. And i was speaking of. An astronomical arise in kidnapping for ransom in. In rape in. That ophelia ritual killing sex trafficking and we ask ourselves whats whats happened to our humanity and whats the. Solution solve these girls who are sold into prostitution. Truly put under some kind of superstitious. Chain we did terrified that if the remarriage on the terms of the of enslavement that terrible things will happen to them and to their family. And they believe it because they come from a superstitious culture but the same culture is being used now to remove that fear from them you have somebody like the above been in for instance and sort of pronounced 1st the curse you know with his entire family of priests and she was the curse on all. Who traffic will continue traffic you know their own people into sex slavery but one should not depend to a belief on the part of culture culture. And lightnings relieves entertains strains but at the same time the negative aspects of culture which just becomes an extra burden even outside on the berman. Just just to follow up on the i i think today its the major clashes that were experiencing are taking place in the field of culture we are so obsessed with data you know measurable quantities of data but there are things that matter so much that cant be measured that easily and yet theyre extremely important so as you know there are all these predictions about a clash of civilizations small space between the western world and islam thats not what we are experiencing but i think what were experiencing rather than a clash between civilizations within the nation states within our societies were experiencing cultural fractures you know cultural battles almost and so theres a lot of tension going in that in the field about identity belonging who are we how do we raise our children but at the same time of course as writers we also believe in the transformative power of culture when societies are deeply polarized the only people who benefit from that are the populists demagogues so how do we find a way to go beyond our requests samaras beyond our comfort zones around and i think thats that is also the possible. Service in such such a pleasure to talk to you as i said i thought i was sure i knew you. And i hope this kind of coming to. Continue why does. Thank you so much thanks thank. You karl can really make a record this was something monumentally horrific as slavery thing under natural and we connect on our collective anger a lot of the time what did poetry do for you is just wrong thank you. From meow to c. N. N. London to accounts and time to spend to get in conversation i am here because of colonialism unprompted its fun interrupted theres a sense of why a month but in still having some legitimacy in terms of spreading the knowledge and technology pretty good pal meet you instead palings you from the recommendation for something more new mentally horrific past slavery studio to be on screen on aljazeera. I once again welcome to another look at the International Focus we have signs of some quieter weather pushing in across the middle east over the next couple of days lost the clearing skies we still got a little bit of cloud and dry sleet and snow just a bit towards the Higher Ground couple temperature of around 8 celsius a similar temperature perhaps a little brighter there 4 to rob on monday some cloud around just around northern parts of the gulf we could see some wet weather for a time in kuwait and some thickening cloud to just over towards the eastern side of the med so perhaps seeing some wet weather just pushing over towards lebanon maybe towards jordan and also into syria 33. 00 turkey as we go on through chiz tuesday and well see whether whether thats also some showers for cyprus say heres that i think a cloud that we have around the gulf just pushing down swells consul mussy a spot or 2 of light rain here 26 celsius as we go through monday will clear through as you go on into chased and i think it will be largely dry and followed a bit of cloud to just around the gulf of aden again southern parts of yemen could catch a shower or 2 players showers there in place into central and northern parts of mozambique those showers they do extend up into towns near and beyond no sign of the rain tearing for kenya in the coming days. Talk an alaskan village rapidly losing ground to roshan and falling permafrost its inhabitants forced to move to safer ground below in the western pacific for steve environment one that reads planets as it winds finds people struggling to cope with rising sooner and asked whether those who have the power to stop it appreciate the true cost of failing to act on aljazeera. And emphatic when the hong kong is prodemocracy movement after months of protests against chinese influence. Hello welcome to aljazeera live from. Dennis also coming up violence erupts in the lebanese capital as government supporters attack protest is blocked roads to demand change. Mission in kenya to get to people affected by landslides is the number of dead rises. In pakistans