Transcripts For ALJAZ Inside Story 20240711

Underline that no agreement is feasible if these issues are not solved. And whilst recognizing the seriousness of these differences we have we tried a further effort should be undertaken by our negotiating teams to assess whether very can be these issues can be resolved russia has begun its mask over 1000 Vaccination Program medical workers and teachers are 1st in line for the sputnik vaccine but some scientists are warning the process has been rushed. The leader of ethiopia has to agree regions says his fighters are still battling Government Forces local leaders say government soldiers have bombed one town while fighting is underway outside the regional capital of caylee. Declared victory a week ago. U. S. President donald trump is in georgia to campaign for 2 republicans and one of those that will decide which Party Controls the senate this is 1st losing the president ial election the candidates will face off next month and our White House Correspondent Kelly Holcomb has more. About how. And how hes continuing to. Those are the headlines the news continues here on aljazeera in about half an hour after inside story by. A controversial dutch holiday tradition is under scrutiny once again black heat is a delight for some but its a racist symbol for all those in a gay a black lives not to protest is it time for this divisive figure this is inside story. Hello welcome to the program and im wrong cause many children and the netherlands have grown up with the image of black pete is a help a necklace their equivalent of santa claus but black paint is highly controversial thats because the figure is usually a white person wearing blackface make up with exaggerated lips and an afro wig thats edition dates back to the 19th century around the time of the global slave trite but people say the character is racist and has no place in modern society some cities have replaced black pete with a compromise forget cold chimney paint his face is covered in soot instead. Hes actually kind of beat me up when they say its no longer appropriate to be completely covered with black makeup so were using suit and this is just because were going through dick cheney and youre not this year are you sent me to see what you did you know im working from home of the peace now that you know that my opponent and how he wants us to adapt in order to make it fun for everybody and keep everybody happy. They control the sea intensified earlier this year when black lives matter protests began in the netherlands. And he black pete demonstrators often face supporters of the far right surveys suggest a majority of dutch people want to keep the character but Public Opinion is shifting some libraries recently removed childrens books that feature black pete Prime Minister who wants defended the tradition now says hes changing his attitudes as well. As work to pete the moment i met little children with dark skin who told me they felt incredibly discriminated against because black pete is black thats the last thing you want at a sink Nicholas Party but on the other hand if the government were to decree that black peter is no longer allowed then a lot of people who love the tradition will react the tradition is changing over time in a few years time there will be hardly any black people expect. Lets introduce our guests michel s. A. s an activist at the n. C. Black People Movement in kinshasa tracy by tennessee a political scientist and activist focusing on gender and race and in london Patrick Vernon a cultural historian a woman come to you all i want to begin in amsterdam with that michel to assess michel this character black pete is effectively the helper of st nicholas he arrives some point in the 19th century as a helper to st nicholas into the netherlands at the same time as the global slave trade happening these are all caricature of what some white people thought a black person might look like but then a grotesque caricature im sure but this is not just about a cute christmas tradition this is almost celebrating slavery isnt it. It is it is. In fact the tradition was in fact that the 850. Guarantee in our guy from around black history the black are graphs and here you can see. One of the 1st book in which it was introduced and it was introduced 13 years before the abolishment of slavery so that was a time in which people in europe in the netherlands look at black people as inferior beings so on the context this characterised created and thats why we protest against it but its not just about that anymore about the fact that the character was created from one space and time over the years its changed into a christmas tradition many people in the netherlands have grown up with this they dont see anything wrong with it so why is it now causing such controversy yeah absolutely as you said when this book was introduced it became very popular and it became the most popular tradition in the country more popular than christmas. And what youve seen the dutch context is that people believe that its an innocent tradition because a lot of people believe that there is no racist racism in the netherlands its innocent country racism happens in the us in south africa but not in so that makes it difficult to address the on the lying legacy of slavery and colonialism however by criticizing the tradition weve been able to open up with the bad about both the tradition and the underlying issue of institutional racism but the Prime Minister is saying that actually youre moving politicking too fast you want to ban this tradition he says give it a few years the tradition will die naturally. Yeah but hes been hes been saying that for a long time and people have been criticizing this relationship is the 1930 s. On asking the question like how long more should we wait how much longer should we wait i think when we talk about human rights when we talk about racism we shouldnt phase it out we should completely end it immediately so everybody can you know live in a respectable and way and in the way that you know people are treated equally lets bring in Patrick Vernon head and london patrick when you and i were growing up in the u. K. There was a very famous figure whos actually called the goalie what he was a caricature of a black person that was used for commercial marketing practices on a brand of gem eventually that figure did go away when you and i became older and we started questioning it and there was a movement to try to get rid of that is it the same in the netherlands or does this is this much more cynical much more openly racist. Its very similar to because i mean you know lets face it one of the impacts alexis of enslavement in terms of trance and its life trade was a day in the human isolation of people of African Heritage whether in netherlands in the u. K. In the caribbean in north america south america. And so theres been a long tradition of of of using. Images of gollywogs using characters like minstrels using white people. Polish tend to be black that was very popular also in britain we had a well known t. V. Sit t. V. Show on the b. B. C. Called the black white minstrel show and that was primetime t. V. In the seventys and also you have morris dancers in cold war who also locking up in the bin campaigns about that i still say its a basic basic principle the 1st principle is lives do not matter its easy to ridicule to make characters of black people and if you were to apply that to other communities people wouldnt tolerate that re recognize and semitism and in europe we recognize that islamophobia but we do not recognize the blackness or afro phobia and i think its important with some sounds. Tracy be very tense here in kinshasa i saw you nodding your head there when you came to the idea that we do not recognize the idea of this you know blackness of people that we we actually do character caricature is much more than say and the seventys a more islamophobia for example that examples that were brought up is that accurate stu you think. Well i think its accurate especially one people of african descent black people in belgium are in that event trying to talk about black feet and said its racism a lot of people will say well what are these people saying they come here in their countries and they want to change a technician thats actually pointing out that people dont see us as belgian are not it citizens of the net and thence and so yes of course its an issue we dont recognize the pain of black people that people african descent but ive seen in the past years there has been some effort especially on iraq and a level to recognize these things by writing some resolution and other political statements so i think we are still not there where people recognize the being and i struggle and the structural reasons that people and people of african descent in all you are face but step by step were moving to the right direction lets assess and where you are right now when you talk to people about black paint and you say to them look i think i dont know where you are on race and i know you that well but let me just explain to you that the caricatural is racist to me to get a welcome reception. The people listen i have to say after saying the city of ems the numbers mean some progressive change but then as you know. That has been developed through struggle over the past 5 to 10 years theres been a lot of activism and there was a lot of recess since but in terms of them id say theres a level of respect and understanding and however outside of the big cities like him said rather nam a few weeks ago for example in the south of the netherlands there was a small protest and Peaceful Protesters against racism are ambushed by a few 100 all against an extreme right people so you see this gap between the city and the rest of the country so theres still a lot of work to do to be done but the work to be done needs to take into account tradition. Michel any to take into account that there is this tradition that has been going on since the 19th century and actually you know or maybe you are just spoiling christmas and all spoiling a festivity by this is what i mean the thing about traditions is that all traditions change culture tremendous i mean it was a tradition that women were not allowed to fold it was also traditions and slave people. Their antisemitic traditions which have been abolished dont i think people should move forward and acknowledge that everything changes throughout time. And can tracy bebo tense here is this the right fight to pick when you have shocked sheryl systemic racism where you have violence where you have people who are denied housing because of the color of their skin who are denied jobs because of the color of their skin is a christmas character a festive character really the fight we should be picking. First of all i think that black people can choose which fight they can pick no one has to tell so either black people which i think and big 2nd of all people need to understand that living in whites in countries like belgium are not and theyll never know and face the racism is a traumatic experience so yes its a right to fight a bit because still a lot of kids have to be called black beats and when you know that everything that is black that our blackness often east associate it with negative stereotypes black beauty is one of them so its a fight in a bigger fight in a fight against Structural Racism in a fight against oppression systematic oppression of black people but its an important fight black people should feel free to celebrate the parties that they want and also they dont children especially children because at the end of the day its the children part if we change that beats the children will not hear its most of the time the adults because the problem but children will be all children will be very happy if the stereotypes surrounded that be changed and its a more friendly or character for everyone given in london do you think this is the right side to pick. Agree with. The previous speaker you know people find some different level some people fight on on key issues round a stop and search and deaths in custody and some people fighting around Better Mental Health Care Provision some people are fighting around housing some people fart around immigration and migration policy the interesting thing about the whole store front caricature has its a National Narrative so when people talk about tradition and steeped in the story corps Structural Racism is part of the tradition so you might challenge stop and search but the Police Believe thats how its like petes is acceptable therefore they will they will treat with disrespect you from there rest them or when you are dealing with state officials they still look at you or the people there for i dont respect you its very clear in terms United Nations the corrections and chances are lost that the years the people of african descent have been traumatized through the history of slavery on modern day racism and part of the process is the colonizing traditions which reinforce our stereotypes so its black petes or minstrels or any film that gives a negative connotation has to be acceptable this has not be tolerated and the and we need to get with this if you want server in just a just an Inclusive Society missler say is one of the things thats really changed over the last year or so is the black Live Matters Movement and it has introduced a consciousness good not just in europe globally as well has it had an impact on youll need mint on your on people understanding. Yes absolutely as i said before. Tax of the boston years. Movement against what the. It was and the far. More and it grew from there and people to about a 1000 last year however this someone more than 50 dozen people showed up on the street saw that quite a large impact. Weve been up in fy the by the Prime Minister by the mayors of ems of them right there and several institutions to think about policy proposals to combat racism and to add to the other speakers i dont think you have to choose between one argue either and that does context one thing goes for belgium as well. The fight against black beads opens up space for broader debate about other issues and examples of racism such as racial profiling labor market discrimination. Discrimination in education etc etc so it all. And so to the Broader Movement of progressive change the subject line and in london i just wanted to talk to you about how you change things legislatively through law through law making in the u. K. We have the Race Relations act its not perfect but a lot of people have suggested that it has changed things for the better for colored communities in the u. K. Do you think thats true do you think it is law making or is it culture that needs to change. Well when you support kl communities often its quite offensive when really is the top book and what you say in. That and britain has been nearly 50 years of campaigning for race quotes lets close in the 1st piece out was in 1965 which was to stop discrimination people discriminates in and get an accommodation and then the men did stop discrimination people didnt 11 markets and then it was a focus on Structural Racism in terms of Government Departments and local farted in other agencies and private businesses discriminates and so over the long history and tradition in the u. K. But those on it those changes how have only come about through lobbying and campaign see need to lobby and the activists work with lawmakers and the politicians and concerned individuals as well i think weve lost much so just a touch not very briefly in parts of britain so much so that a number of museums and institutions have now removed statues celebrating who people have benefited from the slave trade and this loan led to a National Debate in britain what is britain and whats history of what i suppose the history of history should we condone all to be examined at least so i think its been an interesting but health the conversation that we have been we should have a should have a very long time ago too. Quantised much less ascendant evelyns some schools of voluntarily removing images of black paint some Television News organization Television Entertainment shows have already stopped using them but theres no legislative constitutional law making going on to try and stop this from happening is that part of your strategy is all to get laws changed. Yes absolutely since the beginning has been one of our goals and missions to. Lobby powers politicians more locally and actually to defend obliges lation to. You know get rid of all kinds of racial stereotypes especially some of the big black beat of course however unfortunately politicians have been youre not taking responsibility the Prime Minister for example has repeatedly said that its not his responsibility to should be the responsibility of society and yeah thats a very disappointing decision but the positive thing indeed is that we do see a lot of change happening in schools in cultural institutions and companies so. We do see some progression but on a political level unfortunately. Those who have the authority have not taken their responsibility tracy im just going to come here in a 2nd but i do want to pick up on something mitchell just said in effect then what is more important to you what is more important here is it. Cultural change then or is it legal change. Well i think both are very important and i think with all that that was Matter Movement we have to understand that fighting racism is not a trend we leave for people who live in western society they face reeses every day thats the 1st thing the 2nd thing i think the change of mentality is the most important thing so we can have laws we can change those we can make resolution but if people dont change dont act differently against people of color because that people will still have reason therefore it is still important to go in dialogues talk with people and yet like teach them about about history teach them about racism and teach them about the impact of racism on black people because a lot of people dont understand that facing racism is a traumatic experience im seeing that scene for instance much less a last one of the bigger problems youve got when it comes to changing laws we need trust want to tell you when youre talking about politicians is actually in europe there is this rise of the far right there are politicians who may not be far right but i certainly listening to their constituencies and suggesting that actually if we do something about black paint we are going to anger a number of our constituents who dont see this as being rice and so you have a political problem here as well don absolutely absolutely and and and there is the main reason why politicians have not taken responsibility again have to refer to the Prime Minister of the quote unquote liberal party. He has acknowledged especially after black president of rising of the summer that indeed elected me such a change however because he knows that a large part of his Political Base is quite conservative it is afraid to take the steps to actually you know be full of legislation to abolish it so you know that thats a big generous. Part of that and london. Is that anyway this becoming a much more International Movement of people in the u. K. And america. Interested in this idea of black pete as a cultural stereotype the needs to go or is this very much focused on the netherlands you think its not really a global issue. Its a global issue because you are we have our criminal black petes so if the black petes is steeped obviously in the history of netherlands but in britain we have our similar petes in terms of racial stereotype and negativity there are some lets america as well but its the same issue the same issue is a process of dehumanised that was seen as objects or the other were not were not respected and valued as human beings and therefore it becomes fair game to belittle us and to define it and to hide behind impose commas traditions to justify our racist. Propaganda as well and actually if we want to change peoples hearts and minds it does require have the star look in the conversation and its very sad to hear that and the loons the politicians dont want to address this issue because theyre worried about the voter base and a people staying in power but if we can educate a new generation of people from holland an impact belgium that. Pete is racist piece is actually. The humanizes the black experience and up to more importantly it just defies even to certain extent your White Privilege i think that would thats about all we need to help a next generation was sometimes to come painting as well we have the same issues in britain. And even though weve got probably the best lets listen in europe as we leave you are possibly in the few days or and the year. Or the best expression around fighting discrimination there is still a massive level of discrimination and there are still stereotypes of people patrick at heart and so i saw your show there but i do want to bring in our running out of time tracy but hands here one of the questions i always wonder about is does has black heat had an impact in kinshasa in regards of people you speak to as i think theyre aware of is it something that they know that. Well if you know there are so many issues the end of black beads high not the least of their issues but when you end up with congolese people about that they dont understand and of course the also see this reeses im. Even old colonial that white belgian that meeting go for a while and then go back to belgium and see black beating thats weird and wrong so yes its not the main issue but talking about colonization of the colonization is not only a western subject its also an african subject and indeed the company excepted. I want to thank all our guests mention the sas Tracy Biba Tansey and Patrick Vernon and i want to thank you too as well for watching now you can see the program again any time by this thing our web site out is there a dot com and for the discussion go to our Facebook Page at facebook dot com forward slash a. J. The inside story and you can also join the conversation on twitter we are at a. J. Inside story from me among town and the whole team here in town and. 2023 year of lock downs and social distancing he cant reach across the screen and give someone a hug alleyway explores one of the global pandemics biggest side effects loneliness everyone who lives alone has been forced to be socially isolated for the 1st time or highlighting its effects on physical and Mental Health and discovering unique ways of coping control aches being in the together after episode 2 of all hail the lockdown on aljazeera. In 1958 Charles De Gaulle made a famous speech in algeria. In france. But he could dont hold back the tired of algerian independence opiate frances colonies in africa and the pacific. In the final episode of the series aljazeera explores how the long and bitter fight for the french empire still resonates today blood and tears french to colonise ation on aljazeera. To pass. With every. The World Food Program will receive the Nobel Peace Prize for fighting against hunger and the use of starvation as a weapon of war we ask executive director David Beasley how the challenge of combating Global Hunger will be met in the age of the coronavirus pandemic the nobel interview on aljazeera. The only. Matheson in doha are the top stories on the 0 less than a month before the deadline to reach a post brags that trade deal the u. K. And the e. U. Are still at odds but as Prime Minister baraks johnson and European Commission president osullivan laine of totally goshi it has to keep talking the issues they cant agree on include fishing and competition balls but the barber has more on the negotiations theres been a lot of talk in the press about british on happiness or the European Union trying to insist on a long perhaps 10 year transition period before e. U. Access to british fishing waters would be reduced