F.m. North Highlands Sacramento Good morning I'm day frame and it's 9 am And time now for form. From k.q.e.d. Public Radio in San Francisco this is forum I'm Scott Shafer raised in the past 3 years California's spent about 13000000000 dollars to address homelessness but a new report from the state auditor says how that money was spent his and being tracked very well auditors rob a fragmented approach that's just not very effective will discuss the audits findings and recommendations then later in the hour long time journalist Catherine Seligmann joins us to talk about her novel at the edge of the hate as in Hate Ashbury delves into the world of young homeless people living in and around Golden Gate Park That's all ahead on forum right after this news. Live from n.p.r. News I'm Lakshmi saying the National Weather Service says more than 100000000 people are under some kind of winter weather advisory from the midsection of the u.s. To the northeast this hour days of historically low temperatures are causing disruptions to some drinking water systems in Tennessee Memphis light gas and water is asking customers to use less water for at least the next 2 days snow and icy conditions are slowing down Kovan 1000 vaccine distribution in some places George is reporting significant shipment delays and rolling power blackouts continue in multiple states where more freezing rain and snow are expected from a storm that has already claimed at least 20 lives migrants are among the most vulnerable to the potentially deadly elements of this latest storm Texas Public Radio's Maria Mendez reports on efforts to migrants help my prick migrants on both sides of the Us Mexico border the Catholic Charities respite center welcoming migrants moving through that he owed and the valley lost power due to the winter storm hitting Texas the center in Macallan received generators from local authorities but sister not might be meant and said they are sheltering more migrant families than usual because their journeys to other parts of the country were halted by the inclement weather excluding stretching but we're still there she said they are also working to help migrants braving the cold storm in tents across supporter in math a modest make eco providing blankets and other supplies to stay warm imam and this in that is Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin meets his NATO counterparts virtually today Teri Schultz reports allies will be looking for more details about the Biden ministrations plans for Afghanistan and troop levels in Europe while the 2 day meeting will cover many topics the most urgent is what the u.s. Will do in Afghanistan there are currently more troops there from NATO countries than the 2500 u.s. Forces but if the ongoing Biden review determines the u.s. Should withdraw other countries will follow a u.s. . With the Taliban had a May 1st deadline but the militant group has not fulfilled the agreements conditions retail spending soared more than 5 percent last month compared to December in the u.s. More from N.P.R.'s Alina as it turns out January was for shopping boosted by the latest round of federal coronavirus relief new data from the Commerce Department show people buying more across the board furniture electronics closed groceries even spending at restaurants and bars rose almost 7 percent ahead of the pack were hard hit department stores where sales in January jumped more than 23 percent inching closer to where they were before the pandemic started overall most retail categories have now surged beyond their prevent damage levels only 5 are still down compared to January of last year clothing in department stores gas stations electronics and appliance stores and restaurants and bars Alina so you could be our news the Dow is down 27 points this is n.p.r. News live from k.q.e.d. News I'm record. Berkeley's youngest public school students could start returning to in person learning as soon as March 29th that's after the city and the Berkeley Unified School District an ounce to plan to vaccinate teachers late last night the deal is backed by the Berkeley Federation of Teachers it calls for preschool teachers and other staff to begin receiving vaccinations next week if an effect seen is available the district says all teachers and staff should be able to sign up for vaccination by March 8th that would allow middle and high school students to gradually return to in person classes throughout April. The bay area is home to major league baseball football soccer hockey and basketball and perhaps in the not too distant future a women's pro basketball team Oakland City Council member Rebecca Kaplan who sits on the Coliseum governing board says discussions are progressing with the w n.b.a. And potential owners to bring a team to the Oakland Arena Kaplan says now that the Golden State Warriors are in San Francisco the arena is ready and so are the fans but it was known for years as a roll call the Oakland basketball they had they known he said the parson will tell you. All we know is a lot of demand in interest rates Kaplan wouldn't dispose disclose the possible partners but says the Warriors are not part of the discussion speaking of the warriors they're hosting the heat tonight at 7 o'clock there's more news at k.q.e.d. Dot org I'm Mark O'Mara and on support for k.q.e.d. Comes from yawn sram and Maria Monetti sram founders of them and Eddie sram Museum of Art at u.c. Davis which preserves the legacy of renown artists such as Wayne T.-Bo for future innovators by dedicating a 3rd of its space to arts education and support for n.p.r. This morning comes from Merrill Merrill guided investing helps manage a client's portfolio Merrill Edge dot com slash investing goals Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith incorporated both a registered broker dealer and investment advisor and by the listeners and members of k.q.e.d. Bay Area Sacramento Valley sunny skies today Bay Area highs in the fifty's to the low sixty's after some fog in the Sacramento Valley a sunny Wednesday in store look for highs today 58 to 64. From k.q.e.d. Public Radio in San Francisco I'm Scott Shafer and as you might have heard longtime forum host Michael Krasny has retired Mina Kim has been named the permanent host of a statewide 10 to 11 o'clock hour eventually we will find a permanent new host for this 9 o'clock hour but for now we hope to bring you and we will bring you lots of voices and perspectives in the 1st hour including this hour where we turn to our topic homelessness a new report from the state auditor on how California is handling and mishandling the homelessness crisis it finds that state and regional agencies that provide housing and services simply do not keep track of where billions of dollars are going but also fail to follow federal guidelines and are so fragmented that they feel to get people into stable housing Joining us to talk about the new report are Karen Baldassarre k.q.e.d. Housing reporter she's also co-host of sold out rethinking housing in America and Christopher Martin policy director of housing California a nonprofit advocacy organization Christopher and Karen welcome. Thanks for having me really threatening You bet you all to people like you and anyone really who pays attention to these kinds of issues it's not a surprise I guess that our homelessness policies aren't working perfectly but that Aaron starting with you what struck you about the audit. You know it really just highlights and it makes very clear how does jointed. That administration of service as it is for homelessness in California you know points out that there are 9 to even see that minister over $41.00 different programs but there is no single entity that oversees all of them and this is been a problem that's been known since 1989 when there was a commission that look at this very issue and yet it's never been addressed and I think you know that really highlights just the lack of state leadership around homelessness and is the governor Governor to some has made homelessness a top priority and I think that we are starting to see some of that top down leadership but. You know there are still these gaps and inconsistency is and you know disjointed nature of the way that he has problems are administered and that's not leading to the best outcomes and Christopher this is not something that happens overnight where you've got $41.00 different programs and duplication and lack of coordination So is this a case of just different layers being placed on top of each other over the years over the decades maybe. Well I think it it's partially that but partially also just the multi-sector nature in which our you know our homelessness crisis plays out you know being that so many different facets of our state government. Interacts with with the homeless system from the corrections system to the to the how hospitals and health care system. To social services with foster care and just the multi sector nature in that but that just highlights even more the need for what this auditor is pointing out which is to have some authority at our home as cordoning and by dancing Council to be able to coordinate those state agencies that are very you know very multi-sector nature in which our state has to address this issue kind of calls for the need for a centralized you know response which would be you know kind of what the auditor is pointing out in that we need to think through how we can coordinate those resources to avoid that duplication of services and make sure we're using our resources that we do have very limited resources and you have to the to the best of our ability Yeah and as you suggest the group recommended one of the recommendations from the audit is that more authority and responsibility be granted to this whole most coordinating and financing council that was created in 2017 when Jerry Brown was governor but they're also saying that they lack the authority to compel state agencies to make policy or to share spending data so Christopher would would that need to be part of sort of top down edict So I guess from the governor and others in the administration. Yeah I think they you know the coronating council themselves have called for that that they need they need that authority to be able to coordinate those agencies you know Additionally another piece of it the Coordinating Council started in one area of state government and then was moved to a different area of state government and you know we think it's necessary to think through maybe you know giving them the higher level of authority to be able to coordinate those agencies because you know right now they don't necessarily necessarily have that ability to track other programs to coordinate with other state agencies at this moment and that's key for for any kind of homelessness programming is to be able to track those resources track those needs and be able to use data to drive decision making and then right now they don't have the authority to do that you know the job of the state waters not to review something and say everything's great I mean their job is to sort of find problems make recommendations and Iran and I'm just wondering to what extent are they saying that the money is being wasted or are they just saying you know this could be better back to be better you're going in the right direction but here's how to get there faster. One clear is you know the money isn't being used efficiently is what they're saying not necessarily that it's being wasted but that it's not producing the results that we would want to see from this kind of funding so they looked at some other states that do have a more coordinated centralized approach Washington Maryland and Virginia and found that you know in Maryland and Virginia both of those states realize reductions in the number of people who are homeless over the past 5 years and in Washington the number the number of people who are homeless but I'm much lower rate than in California so I'm not one percent in that state compared to 31 percent in California and you know what they're saying is that by having this type of the. And reviewing which programs are successful you can more efficiently target those dollars and see which programs are working and then double down on grams that are working and yet rate of the programs that aren't working we're talking about the new homeless audit and some of the issues around implementing an efficient and effective homeless policy in California My guests are Christopher Martin from housing California and Aaron Baldassarre cuties housing reporter and we go to hear from you what are your thoughts about the way California is addressing homelessness what questions might you have for a guest give us a call now this is a roughly a half hour segment a little bit more than that but you can call in now we'll take your calls at 866-733-6786 Again that's 866-733-6786 or if you prefer you can get in touch on Twitter and Facebook where Pat k.q.e.d. Form or e-mail us if you like Forum at k.q.e.d. Dot org. Christopher as Erin was saying you know California's problem with homelessness is growing it's growing faster than some of these other states that were named in the audits the audit is being sort of exemplary Virginia Maryland Washington but you can't you can't really talk about this topic without talking about the cost of living the cost of housing in particular in California right. Absolutely you know I think as we've we've seen play out here in California that the cost of housing is a direct correlation to our increasing almost this crisis you know there was a report from Los Angeles recently that showed over 50 percent of the people that were newly homeless that you know facing their 1st episode of homelessness they cited cost of living being the number one reason economic hardship you know more broadly that that caused them to fall into homelessness you know and it just continues to exacerbate itself here during code that as as renters across the state are facing challenges and we're facing an economic downturn where people are continuing to struggle here so you know the crisis is certainly much more here in California which makes responding to it even more challenging as we look at you know trying to to to both build the amount of one of the housing we need but also provide the resources for those that are trying to exit homelessness in the short term as well and what did you find in the excellent podcast you've done sold out rethinking housing in America what are some of the I mean there are a lot of causes the whole housing is so expensive in California some are you know somewhat beyond our control the cost of land for example but what are some policies that the state or city either could adopt or tried to adopt and couldn't you know that would address some of these cost issues. Well if you think about it yeah when we're thinking about the cost of housing in general. You know there's a lot of you know cause As for why it's you know housing is so expensive obviously the cost of construction is. Very high labor is very expensive in California and to some extent that's a product of the fact that the country living is so high. You know but you know it also takes a very long time for housing projects to get approved. There's a lot of regulatory hurdles for some of the Iraq but right I mean there's been likes we mentioned regulation I mean sequel the California Environmental Quality Act has been used to stop not just housing but a lot of projects that have nothing to do or little to do with the environment I mean but these these are entrenched policies right absolutely and you know the governor to his credit has been. Looking at some of that streamlining with the project room key effort which was an effort to house most people during that pandemic if you can make people who are over the age of 65 and medically vulnerable to the virus there was some legislation to waive sequel requirements for hotel. To use the site as to the temporary homeless shelters and also to convert them into permanent housing and the proposal you know the governor is doubling down on his proposal this year to convert hotels motels and other types of the things in the form of housing and part of that will be you know waiving sequel to ensure a speedy approval process. You know there's not much to be done about the sort of nimby attitudes and there was one project in mind county that was slated to be used for homeless housing that was rejected because of opposition from neighbors and that's a little harder one to overcome because you're really trying to change the. The hearts and minds of residents who are fearful about what will happen if there is a you know low income or affordable housing in their community although I should say that the evidence. Bears out that it is not you know increased crime and depending on the type of housing has really look back on popular values but you know that that attitude is very. Probably in California and you know very vocal about it so that's a challenging one it is and of course you layer on top of all of this the pandemic and the number of people being Victor facing eviction and of course some of the lofty goals the governors some put in place or Gavin Newsome when he was running for governor had really fallen short we'll talk about that and a whole lot more with our guests Aaron Baldassarre k.q.e.d. Housing reporter and Christopher Martin from housing California when we return after a quick break again if you'd like to join us it's 866-733-6786 yet 866-733-6786 or get in touch on Twitter and Facebook at k.q.e.d. For almost this and housing are topics this hour more to come stay with us. Support for k.q.e.d. This morning comes from a generous gift from young sram and Maria Monetti sram founders of the Monetti sram Museum of Arctic u.c. Davis who believe that all people deserve access to education and culture to enrich a lifetime of exploration and learning and p.g. And e. Help California get the most out of our renewable energy resources find out how time of use rate plans are helping us reach our clean energy goals 5 visiting p.g. Dot com slash t o u info a constitutional crisis in Haiti. Not only is it and what's significant is this is unacceptable we've. Had in our history. We'll explain what's happening in the role of the u.s. Government going forward. And that's next time on the take away from w n y c and the story other reporting the softer now on on the take away on k.q.e.d. Public radio coming your way at 1 pm. And welcome back to form Scott Shafer here and talking this hour about homelessness under water from the state not high grades for California in terms of how it's spending the money give us a call if you would like to weigh in if they think 67336786 our guest Aaron Baldassarre from k.q.e.d. And Christopher Martin from housing California and let's go to Adam in San Francisco your 1st welcome. Hi Thank you I. Think that they get I don't know what the report actually States about. Addiction as well as mental health issues but it seems that as we focus on housing for homelessness it creates a situation where there's very little ownership there's very little accountability and there's just a lot of hand-wringing about availability so can the speakers speak to you know how much of the homeless population in California or in San Francisco actually would be served by an affordable housing because there are other populations of homeless that would seemingly have to deal with addiction as well as mental health to really take advantage of them well that's a great question and in fact let me use that question to transition to another report which was in the San Francisco public press this week which says that nearly one out of 10 of every San Francisco permanent supportive housing unit and that's exactly the kind of housing that Adam is referring to the need for to give people supportive services who maybe have addiction problems or mental health problems that one out of 10 of those units are vacant so Aaron what does that tell you. It's really emblematic of this larger issue that caught up wins out which is that there's trying to need chair of the delivery of homo services in the state and you know with the commented out you know needing to incorporate house services with housing is certainly key and I think that that is also what the audit is pointing out you know for example if you're building let's say permanent supportive housing with the type of addiction services onsite that might be needed for some of the people saying there you know you have to go to one agency to get funding to build the actual building you have to go to another agency to get a grant to operate the services maybe you have to go to to another state agency to to get addiction support services and mental health services and so with this lack of coordination that makes all of that much harder because they have each branch has a different timeline maybe one still in June and others do in March the others do not Tobar it different reporting requirements and it becomes much more onerous for these organizations that are also trying to deliver the services and build the actual building to get all of that done when they're trying to navigate this very confusing overlapping process where you're going to different agencies so you get one project built whether that's a you know a building or are or are just trying to offer services to someone you know Christopher What would you add to that I know folks who work for affordable housing agencies and they'll tell me for example they get frustrated in San Francisco in particular but probably elsewhere where they go to one agency say the planning department they get one answer about something and the fire department tells them something different in terms of what the codes are and so they have to kind of start over to laze failings I mean. You know it for a city and a state that says it wants to do better it just seems like they're who there are a lot of stumbling blocks still. Yeah I think you know Aaron Aaron hit on the head and that you know we really need to kind of get to the effort of almost like a similar to the term of like a one stop shop where people can come and be able to access those resources and streamline this effort and line up our applications and resources because you know we certainly have quite a destroyed system and it gets to the point of the need for that that kind of higher level of authority for almost coronating and financing counsel to to not only does research but identify those resources you know that was one of the things that the court and council was tasked with back in in the originating bill as speaker teen 80 which was to identify the resources we have available to address homelessness throughout our state and you know that that feels like the 1st step we need to do which is to kind of assess what we have and what the need we have is and then coordinate those resources and be able to do that we we've seen efforts that have played out over the past you know. Few years around accord nation between health services and housing and most notably you know the No Place Like Home Act which passed as Proposition 2 a couple years ago which was really looking at mental illness and and sort of housing and making those connections but we certainly you know need to be doing that on a more regular basis with all of our funding streams and making sure that we're utilizing both the health services the substance use treatment you know you know even Workforce Development Services and and other other needs that folks will have to be self-sustaining well but also you know successful and supportive housing and maintain it now housing so it's absolutely critical to provide the council that authority and be able to do those those kind of efforts who lots of folks want to weigh in this morning and let's go down the central coast to Watsonville and Lisa you're next welcome. I mean Oakland actually but well. I'm all out I just want to talk about a barrier that no one seems to be talking about and personally I've experienced this as far as homelessness like I'm trying to rent an apartment as a single parent and I don't have a credit score that's worthy enough for I don't make 3 times the monthly rent and that's what rental properties are asking for who makes 3 times their monthly rent like no one and it's a huge barrier if I didn't have another resource I could technically be homeless because of that I don't have good credit and especially after this tend to make a lot of people's credit scores are going to be decimated bike it is just not a sustainable way to vet applicants and can someone speak to that and was the one talking about that was a huge huge barrier for me and many many other people that is a great point Aaron Fatah and I feel the collar you know as a as a renter myself it is exhausting looking for you know whenever you have to look for a new place to live and you know unfortunately because a lot of rental a lot of the rental is in the private market there you know I don't know legally what the state could you know allow in terms of setting requirements because you know rental you know people who own property have certain rights to determine who gets to live where and in their own vetting process that's determined by think law in the Constitution as well but you know I think that there is this broader effort to push for. More social housing which is there there is a bill in the legend later this year that is the 1st time bringing up the idea of how quickly funded housing or not just the very lowest income people but for all you know any you know middle you know income people as well to take advantage of that would be funded you know built by the government but. A little bit more financially secure because they're funded by people who pay of a range of a rents and have the capacity to pay a range rent and so that's a very interesting idea they're very good models in other countries where this works very well in Austria and in Singapore and other places has really been trying to mean I did say but we'll see what happens with the seat like you know the legislation and where that goes but there is certainly a cry out there for more affordable housing or housing that people can actually afford absolutely least a lot of folks are in that situation thanks very much for highlighting that let's go now to Los Angeles and Sharon your next. Hi good morning thank you so much for having this program I had a question for Mr Martin I was wondering if there's legislation being considered now. For example simply Bill 71 that he thinks my fault some of the problems that were highlighted in the audit work because word you know to be 71 is . Of course. That's your job. Of course and the $71.00 is kind of building up an effort to to accomplish a lot of the goals that the state auditor pointed out you know most notably it gets at some of the efforts around the authority for the Coordinating Council and the ability of the coronating Council to do a lot of those efforts but it also includes a lot of work in there around you know getting out what you know pointed out in terms of assessing need in gaps in our system both locally and at the state and so I know that bill would require local city to some both the needs and gaps analysis but also having the state do that and set metrics and goals which is something the audit really pointed out around trying to meet outcomes and goals around you know. You know best practices around homelessness and and getting people access to housing and one of the other you know biggest pieces here as it relates to the coordination among agencies as I mentioned earlier there's just so many different departments and agencies that touch homelessness and one of the pieces of $71.00 is to created just charge planning protocol for both prisons and hospitals and you know a poor way to prevent people from falling into homelessness which you know is something that needs to happen with those other state agencies. You know and 8071 is really an effort from from the states of both provide the resources necessary to to address almost a set stale which is something our state's really challenged to do recently we spend less than a half a percent of our state budget on an issue that really is the moral crisis of our time and so you know that Bill is really looking at providing stealable resources to the need but also like I talked about you know what goes along with resources is also the accountability and the coordination efforts to to meet some some outcomes and. And finally meet measurable goals and measurable reductions and homelessness for our state something Aaron what would you have. Well I think what Chris was alluding to you know that many didn't explicitly was that it calls for reforming the corporate tax rate to drum up you know I think it's to the tune an increase in correct me but over a $1000000000.00 in New Orleans and we were $1000000000.00 He provides an ongoing funding for homelessness that in the state which you're not something surprisingly that although we have of the state has spent a lot of money on homelessness over the past 3 you know 5 years there is not a single ongoing funding source or our many you know meaningful ongoing funding sources to really address the problem as Christopher said at scale and so that would be certainly a critical addition that provides more certainty to riders about you know sure you know this training them that they're going to be able to render services you know this year and next year and into the future because you know. Homelessness Once you have someone you know you still have to provide ongoing support to them as there will covering from addiction or finding a job or you know continuing their education and getting on their feet so it's not like you can just provide some money out outside and then you're done and it requires an ongoing commitment and that's where this I'm going something comes in marriage Karen thanks for that call to read some listener comments Holly writes Why build new supportive housing now with covered so many office buildings will remain vacant as work from home is the future how about tax deductions for companies to give their buildings a very at very low cost to housing and services and then Michael writes What are the demographics how many are California residents how many came from other states how many are drug related mental illness that's a you know complicated question but a lot of people do wonder where homeless folks come from are these people who are being evicted are they people who come from communities in California where they don't have as many services me or maybe all of the above Christopher. Yeah to that to that that 2nd question you know as I mentioned earlier most most. People that are falling into homelessness are falling in because of economic hardship. You know mental health and substance use treatment are certainly pieces of that the majority of people that are falling into homelessness for the 1st time are both from California there's there's data that shows some of the tune of 80 percent of people experiencing homelessness currently are from the state of California or have lived here in the last 5 years and so you know it certainly. Is California rooted in in terms of where people are from that are experiencing homelessness and you know we we have to look at it holistically we have to include you know the substance abuse treatment and mental health treatment the workforce development piece but really what we're seeing right now is that people are falling in from from economic hardship and the cost of living here in California is so high and and when people don't necessarily have a safety net to fall in upon you know their one you know major hospital bill or you know economic you know payment away from from falling into homelessness and so you know that that's kind of where we're seeing the challenge. No comma here Greg writes sort of along the same lines California proud bastion of liberal progressive ism is so ruthless in its abandonment of the homeless how does the per capita homeless rating California compared to other states which actually care for their homes I'm not sure folks would agree with that it may not be maybe that the policies are working as well but there does seem to be a fair amount of compassion some say too much Aaron by that by that I mean there are people there is another. Listener here who writes I live on Russian Hill used to walk my 2 dogs to the farmers market now I walk through blocks of tense feces needles crazy people yelling Why do my tax dollars pay for hotels for homeless people when we just say no just saying what most that Franciscans are thinking so there is there is that sort of fatigue isn't there of dealing with this issue even as we have a growing homeless problem and you know a lot of solutions and funding for them. One of the things that I think is very characteristic about homelessness in California is that it's very visible right so 151000 people who are homeless at the last time that the state did this by any on a survey in 2019 most of them but 100000 were unsheltered So those people sleeping in cars intense r.v. . Encampments places that aren't meant for regular habitation and that's not the case everywhere in New York for example there is a right to shelter so the state is required to this New York City required to. Put people in emergency shelters and have a national tour is available for everyone and if there aren't enough shelters they actually put people into hotel rooms all the time not just during the pandemic that right to shelter does not exist in California there is an effort there was a bill introduced last year to have a right to housing in California. It did not pass it's going you know it's being worked on it's a very big bill it would you know change our Constitution likely it would be a massive commitment from the state but there is a movement to think about a right to shelter a right to housing in California and that would be a very big shift politically in California and Aaron you know as you say homosex is very visible and in cities places like Los Angeles Oakland certainly San Francisco as well as your place in California whether it's a city or some a county or whatever that's that seems to be doing it really well it's doing things right. Well there are. There are a sort of shining lights out there particularly I'm thinking about Bakersfield Kern County which has achieved functional 0 chronic homelessness So that's people who have been homeless for a. More than a year or on and off for over 3 years and what that that that you know region did. Was that they really brought that they got the data that they needed to really focus on the individuals in their region who were suffering from chronic homelessness and were able to begin to house them very quickly and it was because they poured in either their service says because they started collecting the data they needed again to find what was lacking Next you have weekly meetings with the wood look at a group of 20 people and say well how do we get these 20 people into housing as quickly as possible and and they were able to do it and so you know it's a remarkable example of what can happen when folks are working together when they are sharing data and when that level of communication is president they can really target the resources necessary to get people how it's always good to have some successes out there sometimes it seems like these problems are insoluble but. Not entirely there are some places doing a good job and of course we can learn from those here Baldassarre k.q.e.d. Housing reporter co-host of sold out rethinking housing in America thanks to you and thanks also to Christopher Martin policy director at housing California thanks so much Scott All right you bet we're going take a short break and we're going to continue talking about homelessness but it's going to be in the fictional sense a new novel from writer Catherine Seligmann It's called Happy edge of the hate We'll be right back. As you may have heard Michael Krasny has retired as forum host mean Occam has been named the permanent host of the statewide show at 10 and for the next several months you'll hear lots of different k.q.e.d. Voices in the 9 o'clock hour eventually will find a new host for the 9 am But for now we hope to bring you lots of voices and perspectives to look forward to hearing from you about what you want how to form going forward let us know e-mail us now at Forum had to k.q.e.d. Dot org that's formed at k.q.e.d. . And welcome back to forum on Scott Shafer and for the rest of the hour we're moving from the reality of homelessness to a fictional account of it in her new novel living on the edge of the Haiti writer Katherine Sullivan takes readers deep into the world of homelessness told to the eyes of a group of mostly young street people including the book's narrator Mattie Denali though who by chance witnesses the murder of a homeless young man in Golden Gate Park the book won the pen bellwether prize for socially engaged fiction and Catherine Sullivan joins us now to talk about it welcome thank you it's good to be here good to be with you I receive your byline for many many years it's good to read this book which I highly recommend It's got a lot of heart and I want to just see how much your reporting that you've done over the years informed this book or did you go out and do new research today did you spend time with especially young people in the hate. Both. I had lived in the hate and written for the hate and as you know been a reporter for. The examiner and then the San Francisco Chronicle magazines for more than 20 years and I had done many stories and talked to so many kids filtering through the neighborhood over the years but when I decided to write this book it was some time after actually coming across the scene of a murder in Golden Gate Park which was the seed for the book and which sent me into a whole new direction in my research so I did do quite a bit of research for the fall well you know it's funny to say that and I don't know if this is the murder you're referring to but reading the book made me think about what happened in 2015 there were those 3 Drifters I think they had been down from Oregon they shot and killed a young woman in cold gay park and then they killed somebody on a hiking trail a man a yoga Professor yoga teacher up in Moran was it was f m are you thinking over to something different. That was not and that was actually it was that was the the. Story behind a wonderful nonfiction book which came out a couple years after that mine happened about 10 years ago and what's what stands out about it at least to me was that it wasn't written about no one really knew about it in might have been one sentence in the paper and it was an encounter between a man in a sixty's and a kid in this twenty's and the kid ended up dying on the grass at night with no one else around and that's what set this whole thing off for me thinking about how often people's paths crossed and we had no idea what their story was and I started looking around me and my mistreats around my home and in the park with a whole different sort of set of eyes well in fact of a murder similar to what you just described forms one of the key story lines in your book and Maddy Dinallo kind of becomes a private investigator on her own not that that sounds hokey or that it is in the book but she does it is she is trying to find out what happened to this young man she's sort of haunted by it and you know so many homeless people you know we heard a bit of it in the 1st part of the hour you know people there are tired of seeing it they don't want to look at it they walk down the street may have hurt their eyes was this book to a certain extent a way of giving voice to the voiceless and the invisible. It was that and also just my my natural sense of probably having been a reporter and somebody who does tend to walk down the street and look in side people's windows and think what's going there you know what's he cooking and what would it be like and I was sitting across from him and sort of that other woman to hear that yeah I didn't have some of that natural I don't know what you call it knows he would call it curiosity. Very acidy Let's put curiosity so on and so having that and also just being so stunned that this could happen right you know not not actually in my neighborhood is in the park but yet the idea that we walk by people we know so little about them and actually every single person we passed as it's true of the people we passed in our own homes has a story that we don't know and often we see people on the street and we always see is the external of somebody sitting there and yet can be annoying if you live in the neighborhood they have people blocking the sidewalk making it a wreck it's night but we often don't look at the story behind what is going on and you know I live in the Hague because well I from I 1st came to California I lived on the Sonic between Waller and hate street and mourn is many this is quite a while going out with the there has been a consistent proliferation I think of young people kind of hanging out on street specially toward the park and you know as you write in the book their lives are complicated you know they're not some of them are victims you could certainly say of dysfunctional families but they also many of them you know they're offered help they refuse the help they're ambivalent about the help how did you think about that part of the book. Well in my experience of talking to a lot of the kids and people who are coming through I think that there's a lot of suspicion and people who've encountered really traumatic things in their past there are often very wary of accepting help so there's that combination of yes they do there's there's so many things that each person needs in order to be stabilized and move into some kind of housing and feel like they have a secure future but there's also a lot of suspicion so people are or they don't want to necessarily move into a shelter of course they can't now this book was preparing them but they could yet now and often if they could it's with a lot of sort of fear and suspicion Yeah and a lot of it is has justified. Little bit of the phone lines because this is a 20 minute segment if you'd like to talk with Kathryn Solomon about her new novel her 1st novel I should say at the edge of the hay to give us a call 866-733-6786 against 866-733-6786. Talked a little bit about the young people in this book the lead character the narrator in fact is Mattie denial the who I think is 2020 years older and I confusing her was Shane Ok She's 20. 1 who reaches when when when she tells the story of she's lived in a park yeah yeah but but there's also sometimes visibly sometimes sort of in the background parents her parents her father her mother and how they came in and out of her life did you talk to parents of homeless folks at all or people that you know whose kids went homeless for one reason or another. I did both of that some I did talk to people who had come through San Francisco looking for their children who they suspected were here and. Others who I know about and have read about and I think it is this sense of of just not knowing and every parent's fear about not really knowing what your children think and what they're up to and I think often we think we divide kids into the good kids the bad kids and you know my my my child's the he was a good kid and that's what the father who who comes to San Francisco to find his son has been killed is going through his mind his and the mother's mind is what what did we do what did we miss what how could this have happened and I think that is a common thread that parents just don't they want to know they can't figure it out it's a source of incredible pain not to know where your child puts down their head at night. Yeah well and you know there are a lot of feelings about homelessness and about the homeless they range from extraordinary compassion to frustration anger people sometimes feel that folks are taking advantage of the system and there's a little bit of all of that in the book and I'm wondering you know where did you land in a particular place or is your is the bottom line sort of well it's complicated. I am I think I would say that the bottom line is it's complicated and also that I wanted to bring out how things have changed in San Francisco and particularly in my neighborhood which is traditionally such a liberal place and a tolerant place but people there's a lot of disagreement now about how tall What should our approach be and how tolerant should we be. I mean this was the neighborhood that sit and lie which is a law that forbids people to sit or lie and block the sidewalk was passed specifically to deal with what was going on in this neighborhood this tolerant neighborhood so people were. Arguing amongst themselves about what to do and I think. That the answer is not to punish people who are unhappy but to help make them aware of what their presence does on the street and I think there are some very good programs in this neighborhood and hit Ashbury that they do just that they do try to communicate with primarily with kids who are on the street about. You know where congregating causes too much trouble for the neighbors and it's it's very calm Yes it's very complex and I don't think there is an easy answer but the answer isn't just to try to get people off the street and moved you know well and as you said that's the city was very controversial I think I could be wrong but I thought it was on the ballot and the people voted it voted to support it as they did care not cash which was very controversial back in the early 2000 Gavin Newsome promoted that there seems to be this in San Francisco this kind of like liberal outwardly liberal attitude but on the but then privately when they go to the ballot box people kind of want to we want more control of things on the street is that your sense yes yes that is my sense and it's really plays out in conversations and on the Internet you know on Twitter here in the neighborhood about how people feel about having this population on the streets Yeah all right let's go to the phones and again if you'd like to talk with Catherine Seligmann about her novel at the edge of the Hague give us a ring at 866-733-6786 again 866-733-6786 let's go to Veronica in Oakland your 1st. Yes hello thank you I never called the line before and I was so compelled to share a story last Tobar. I discovered a dead body homeless woman. In the middle of the sidewalk in busy Berkeley like Ashby Ashby and you know right where the Cooperative Bank is and I stopped my car and saw people walking by. And not just looking and then just walking away and so I stopped I do mutual aid for groups like the North Oakland mutual aid and North Oakland Restorative Justice Council so it's my nature to walk in and help. And so I walked up to this person and they were obviously deceased. And even d. So I called 911 and stayed until people came and I. Was trying to talk to some. People there or people who live right next door and no one knew her name which really surprised me. And I try to learn the names of my house lists neighbors here in Oakland I'm just only 2 blocks away from an encampment. And so I just I said prayers I came back and. Put some flowers down and. I just felt like you know something honoring who she was even though I didn't know her name felt like just that you know that's my nature to. To give a name to give spirit to this person and it just it haunted me for you know several months and then I and then I forgot you know ix. We are to forget it was so profound yapper of profound and also you know Catherine I mean I think many of us I know I have you walk past somebody on the street and they are wrapped up in a blanket they're leaning at their get lying against a building they're probably sleeping maybe they're passed out but I think we all want to know what do we do you know do we call 911 as 911 even care I mean you know what I'm saying it's like what's the right thing to do and I think you know Veronica kudos to you for you know reaching out and trying to you know give some honor to this person's life but Katherine This is like I think a dilemma for people. Yes it is it is indeed a dilemma and you don't know what to do and in in the novel she the main character Mattie does come across someone in the park and she worries that he he might be dead. And you know this is it startles even her. So so this happens unfortunately to all of us and we in some way we get desensitized to it in ways yeah and I understand that that we want to walk way around someone who is sleeping and it looks like they're sleeping they're covered in your you just don't know what to do and I think it's I think it's yes Broncos that's a that's a heartbreaking story yeah and although she wasn't just she was flat faced you know it wasn't a sleeping kind of thing but it could have been that she got she was passed out you know something like that sure but did you ever find out anything about her where she came from or where family was No I never never did that much investigating. I I felt like just different you turn around Yeah Yeah Yeah well thanks for thanks for sharing that and I recommend the book by the way it might or might be bring up some you know uncomfortable memories but it's definitely a it's a it's a great read for one thing but it's also really draws you into that world little bit further but Frank thanks for sharing the story. Thank you. And let's go back to the phones again the number well give it out one more time we're getting close to the end of the hour but they think 67336786 into your next. Kind. I've told many times before with Michael Krasny bad anyway I'm a nurse myself and I have a friend who's a social worker and she's a director all Center in San Francisco for elderly homeless patients with. Mental illness most of them of course. Addicted to drugs or alcohol and. The things with housing for patients like this also have a background in mental health. It's not that easy even when they are placed when they're found the come as a nation in the 5 mins or a room a lot of times they're not able to keep that place because of their nature of their disease because their part in the oid or because they have to give away part of the money that they get is is illegal as it is yeah push housing in the change in the means that they can get drugs that they need in their drug that I think I'm going to break in because they're getting short on time but I do appreciate the point and Catherine that whole you know there are tradeoffs as you show in the book with Mattie and her friends tradeoffs to getting off the streets right you have something you have discipline your rules have less freedom so it's it is again it's complicated Yeah indeed it is complicated and the kids kids who tend to come to hate her slightly different population but no no fewer number of issues that she brought up so yeah yeah sure action short on time but what would you like people to take from the novel Well I would hope they would. If people would have the sense of being able to walk through the city with their eyes open maybe a little bit more. You know less reluctant to talk to people not to just solve everyone's problems or you have them but just so you can knowledge people that you know see everyone has a story Catherine Seligman thank you so much her book is called at the edge of the hate winner of the pen America literary ward for socially engaged fiction thanks for joining us thank you so much for having me Scott all right and that will do it for this hour of formal be back tomorrow at 9 with Roe comma congressman from Silicon Valley but thanks for listening and thanks for the calls and comments have a great day. Funds for the production of forum are provided by the members of k.q.e.d. Public Radio and the Germanicus Foundation and the generosity foundation let us check in with Joe McConnell for a look at Bay Area traffic out there I was 17 solo traffic for a 2nd day in a row because of tree trimming project till what one or 2 this afternoon southbound between all the college in the summit heaviest traffic is around Redwood estate stop and go through that area it's a slow in San Lorenzo and San Leandro 80 southbound for no apparent reason before and after 238 down past the welling stalls crashes road work their scheduled and road work slowing traffic San Francisco northbound on 90002 especially in the northbound side because of the ongoing sewer project between Noriega and Lincoln Joe McConnell for k.q.e.d. Traffic support comes to us from European sleep works and support for it comes from good eggs delivering local produce seasonal mail kids wine and more throughout the Bay Area more information including delivery area available at good eggs dot com absurdly fresh groceries delivered I'm gay Freeman Good morning you're listening to k.q.e.d. Yes ma'am San Francisco and found North Highlands Sacramento. From k.q.e.d. Public Radio in San Francisco I mean it came coming up on farm 2 female led mass vaccination sites are now up and running in California one at the Oakland Coliseum the other at Cal State l.a. In hopes of reaching communities hard hit by the pandemic land next communities have borne the brunt of coping 1000 staff a station but initial numbers suggest they make up a small share of the state's an ocular while a big hurdle to vaccine access now is supply critics also point to how and where they're distributed the challenges Latinos face accessing vaccines and the status of the state's rollout after this news. Live from n.p.r. News I'm Lakshmi saying in Aaron conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh has died his wife Katherine broke the news on Limbaugh show today that her husband had passed away Limbaugh had advanced lung cancer he was 70 years old led by inspired waves of imitators and propelled Republican politicians even as he offended millions N.P.R.'s David Folkenflik has more on Limbaugh's legacy at his peak Limbaugh drew an estimated 20000000 listeners weekly in 1904 he was credited with helping sweep Republicans to control the House of Representatives in October 2020 he turned his show over to vent President Trump for a virtual rally during the pandemic Limbaugh spoke to n.p.r. In 2007 about his show and there is a lot of bush dick and a lot of humor to it but the one thing that then I don't do is make things up or say things I don't believe just because a reaction to that takes no talent that's humor also traded on sexist and racist stereotypes he said those who took offense were seeking to silence him in early 2020 the longtime cigar afficionado publicly acknowledged his cancer it later revealed it was terminal David Folkenflik n.p.r. News Kovac 1000 vaccinations in the United States are averaging higher White House says 1700000 people per day received a dose of vaccine in the week ending yesterday that's up from one and a half 1000000 per day the previous week in the latest pandemic response briefing c.d.c. Director Richelle lengthy said infection rates are still ticking down. Cohen 19 he says have now been declining for 5 weeks there's been a average in the past week he says have decreased nearly 22 percent and 2 imagines an average of slightly more than 86000. Dr Olinsky says vaccinations are still not yet at a level that drive down the number of new Cofa 1000 cases Meanwhile back to back winter storms across much of this country currently slowing down vaccinations at a u.n. Security Council meeting on covert 19 the u.s. Has announced it will pay the World Health Organization the more than $200000000.00 at it owes by the end of this month more from N.P.R.'s Michele Kelemen. The Biden administration is rejoining the UN's World Health Organization and that means paying back dues that the previous administration withheld secretary of state Tony Blinken says there's no time to waste and this has to be. Seen prevent future. Partners around the globe strengthen and reform the w.h.o. His British counterpart is calling for a local cease fires to enable vaccination campaigns in war zones India is offering to vaccinate all un peacekeepers posted around the world Michele Kelemen n.p.r. News the State Department at last check on Wall Street the Dow is down 5 points at 31517 this is n.p.r. Live from k.q.e.d. News I'm Rick Helma Ria Delane to state lawmakers unveiled a proposal this morning that would gradually bring to a halt some of California's major oil drilling methods the bill authored by state senators Scott Wiener and Monique Lehman would prohibit new permits for hydraulic fracturing also known as fracking and block companies from renewing existing permits for the controversial technique the proposal would do the same for several other oil predict production methods but not for traditional oil and gas drilling which is responsible for most of petroleum production in California the techniques subject to the moratorium would be barred altogether starting in 2027. California voters will get a ballot in the mail for any election this year under a bill heading to Gov Gavin Newsom's desk after passing the legislature yesterday k.q.e.d. Politics reporter Guy Mars already has more all voters were mailed about last year to avoid spreading the coronavirus at the polls Assemblyman Mark Berman a Democrat from memo Park says it's still necessary this bill recognizes that the pandemic has not gone away Republicans including Orange County is home Lehman Steven choice argue that sending ballots to all voters was supposed to be a one time thing we were torn this you knew most on one by mail process was unnecessary for 2020 generally in Washington was the reason to special elections are scheduled for 2021 and an effort to recall Governor Newsome could also make it about this year Mars are already k.q.e.d. News there's more at k.q.e.d. Dot org American. Support for n.p.r. Comes from Progressive Insurance with the name your price tool offering a range of coverage and price options to choose from now that's progressive more and progressive dot com or $1800.00 progressive and by the listeners and members of k.q.e.d. Lots of sunshine out there today in northern California generally for the Sacramento Valley High as will range from $58.00 to about $65.00 maybe some gusty winds up to 30 miles per hour for the Bay Area the rest of today mostly sunny skies upper fifty's to the mid sixty's partly cloudy tonight maybe some fog reappearing late night lows in the lower thirty's to the mid forty's tonight and over night. This is forum I mean Achim more than 50 leaders in California signed onto a letter last week urging Governor Gavin Newsom to improve and expand vaccine access to land next communities stressing that they've been dramatically over represented in the state's Kovan $1000.00 cases and deaths and are key to the state's economy Latino workers represent 37 percent of the state's labor force they wrote including an outsize share of essential workers and to ensure California's workforce is not even surveyed during their most productive years the administration must recalibrate vaccine distribution policies Joining me now is Sonia Diaz founding director of Latino policy and politics Initiative at the Alaskan School of Public Affairs at the University of California Los Angeles Cynthia thanks so much for joining us this morning thanks for having me why did you write this letter what are your biggest concerns about the vaccine rollouts effect on with you know communities Well Los Angeles and California have had an outsized share of cut with 19 infections and more Khalili and this is fallen on the shoulders of Latino households for one reason in particular they're working to keep Americans safe and when we think about frontline communities and those most at need right now of access to vaccines it's those workers and they're frankly not getting what they need because of systematic failure and policymaking that unfortunately doesn't take into account demographics and geography so then what are the key things you're asking say the ministry has to do to recalibrate its vexing distribution. They're pretty simple and in fact Governor Gavin use them and his administration are already seated are asked and put into implementation one of them which is start collecting racial math that data about who's getting the vaccine and where they're getting it but other things are a little more novel and they require at tension to detail when we think about the elderly Californians who are at risk we know that they're vulnerable but data has also made clear that it's young Latinos and young people of color who are dying just proportionately and Los Angeles County alone between November and the present the death rate of Latina to cut in $1000.00 has increased by 1000 percent and so this means that any access to vaccine around age also needs to be including workers who are not over the age of $65.00. So you would like to see basically that from my communities that are under the age of $65.00 are included in the priority group. Absolutely because they're dying and this is not a Latino issue this is that issue of Californians solving 30 ability to recover and frankly American rebuilding and the reason being is that the people that are dying the workers that are dying or gang in the most productive year these are the people that are going to continue to ensure the Californians the 5th largest economy in the world but they're also the people who lag behind other Californians with access to care both in terms of insurance coverage and actually a doctor that can speak their language or practices in their community and that gets me to the other point which is that we need to improve the results in c. Of these communities and we have to do that by investing and county public health agencies and our community health centers that are the trusted messengers for these vulnerable Californians. In terms of changes with regard to how the state prioritizes who should be getting vaccines you're saying that you would like a change in the guidance but it also sounds like you have a lot of concerns with how the rollout is being handled that even let's say that the guide said specifically you should prioritize getting Latinos under the age of 65 vaccinated like period that how it's been handled has also been a problem that even under the existing guidance more Latino should be getting vaccinated. Absolutely and this is a problem that really stemmed from an absence of leadership in the White House under John Coltrane's and led to decentralization amongst our state and local governments but that said our leaders in California have been trying with limited success in getting back scenes to frontline communities one example that I think that the rest of the state should really start replicating is having a Riverside County program where you're vaccinating farm workers at their job site that can include in the processing and meat packing plants that also showed include employer and public health agencies and here's another thing just stepping back because I know a lot of the listeners who are elderly or have elderly family members have already had trouble trying to get a vaccine equipment online and so there needs to be a technological component and one that does not require use of high speed broadband Internet and English all my language capacity we need to ensure that Californians can shock and get a vaccine and not jump through hurdles to try and get their family members signed up through a system that unfortunately is not user friendly against an idiot if any directive Latino policy and politics initiative at u.c.l.a. And I denied Barbara fater Ostrov into the conversation contributing writer reporting on medicine and health policy account matters pharma federal struck thanks so much for joining us thanks for having me so remind us what the biggest problems with the vaccine rollout have been both the problems that the state has created and the problem that they're facing now that they can't control. Sir so I mean the the biggest problem is the lack of supply that's said there are still there are still problems with the rollout and most people characterized it as pretty chaotic. The state still has. Administered more than 6000000 doses and I was reading today that that is more than some countries at this point it is a Herculean task it was as Sonia said complicated by a lack of coordination from the federal government things are improving but the state still has a lot of equity issues to deal with you know we're hearing a lot from the governor on how equity is our north star and yes actually at a vaccination clinic at a fruit packing plant in Coachella today it's part of his tour of various vaccine sites but we've seen reports of people driving in from wealthier whiter communities to grab scarce vaccine slots in lower income communities of color and the system as it stands right now favors people with time access to technology and reliable transportation but you know we've seen that state and local leaders are really trying to level the playing field they have your mark a lot of money for 150 community organizations serving disadvantaged people and hard to reach communities like farm workers who may speak indigenous languages the state's registration site my turn is being translated into Spanish and for other languages and there's a hotline that will have Spanish speaking operators have some efforts are definitely being made well it's good to hear that they are turning the corner in turn is a suggestion that the state is listening at least to their concerns around data collection can you just remind us 1st where who is eligible right now for a vacuum. Sure any health care worker anyone over the age of 6565 and older and then 3 groups of essential workers teachers and child care workers people who work in the food industry including grocery store workers people who work in food processing plants and food work you know farm workers and then 1st responders like police and firefighters. And how complicated would it be to include more frontline workers under the age of $65.00 s n u d s would like to see given the fact that we are seeing that the state is constantly making adjustments for example their priorities change to basically really include people with disabilities and compromised immune systems can you talk about that and how complicated is it really to try to make these kinds of revisions to its rollout plan. So yeah the state has shown some steps flexibility and of people with certain disabilities or medical conditions will be able to will be eligible for vaccine starting on March 15th but one of the issues is we still have very short supply overall and we have about 17000000 people who are going to be on a simple for vaccines starting on March 15th that's a lot of people and then there's the complexity of trying to prove that you work in the occupation you say you do and I think what the state is trying to do instead is divert vaccine allocations to disadvantaged communities So for example on my turn the state's online registration site that's going to have some vaccine allocations attached to it and they're going to be reserving some of those appointments specifically for Ziff codes or communities that are disadvantaged low income and may have large concentrations of. Brett black and brown people so you do you have do you think that will be enough what more do you think is needed besides also making sure that you're zeroing in on the codes hard zip codes. Well one of the most important things is whether or not Californians can survive covets 19 and that Dr We're talking right now about disproportionate infections mortality rates and we also need to be talking about morbidity and the lasting impacts of this on our health will but author economic future and if we want to dive in that means that we need to make investments to bright that means increasing the capacity of our local public health agencies and community health centers and some of the society organizations to get to these hard to reach communities vulnerable communities limited English proficiency communities in real prime because although we all hope to overcome cope in 19 we know California will continue to have wildfires we don't know what the next crises or pandemic is but we need to beef up our infrastructure now one of the most important examples I've been saying time and time again in a state with rampant wildfires over the course of the last 4 years we've expected our compass enough to go and pick fruit without an 95 mass California should have had a stockpile for the very reason of our climate change disaster and yet we find ourselves a cold night scene we're asking those farm workers to go pick pomegranates go pick not without mass during a time of cope with 19 and also a time unfortunately of climate disasters Well we will be digging into more of your recommendations in particular the one where you're talking about how we need to get vaccines to public health to to smaller local health agencies and community health centers after the break Lastly be speaking with the chief operating officer of a community health center network and so. We we look forward to that but I also want to invite our listeners right now to join the conversation with your questions about the vaccine what your experience has been trying to get a vaccine for you or loved one and what your thoughts are on the disparities that you're seeing particularly how they're impacting the Latino community 866-733-6786 is the number to call the e-mail address form. Or on Twitter or Facebook. Support for comes from simplest the mortgage lender whose technology search is over 50000 offers to deliver the right refinance options private data says private with private data stays private with simplest more information at a Siam Estie n.p.r. Dot com. Donating that car you don't need to k.q.e.d. Is an easy way to help bring news in times like these will arrange to have it picked up running or not get top dollar for it and invest the funds back into our news coverage. Dot org slash Carnes the music you're hearing is the debut album of a baby girl created by her parents before she was even born the album sounds of the unborn. And here and now you'll hear more on here and now at 11 am this morning on public radio. Welcome back to farm I mean Achim we're talking about the challenges Latinos and other vulnerable Californians Faison accessing vaccines and to satisfy the state's vaccine rollout with Sonia Diaz founding director of Latino policy and politics Initiative at the lessons will of public affairs of the University of California Los Angeles Barbara fade Ostrov a contributing writer reporting on medicine and health policy for county matters and joining me now is Dr Efraim Telemachus chief operating officer at also med health services a network of community health clinics in Los Angeles and Orange County Dr Paul Montas thanks so much for talking with us. Thank you for the opportunity one of the recommendations in Sanya Diaz's letter is fully integrating community health centers into the vaccine distribution process why has this been so difficult since I understand you are set up to that many people yeah I would say you know as a primary care physician and more importantly as a Californian you know going into 2020 I was incredibly proud of our state and really the talk of really ensuring that every Californian had access to health care and obviously I got completely We got a file line by this pandemic and going into this pandemic serving an undershirt community like the one we serve at all to make your son in California but that lane are so many over 300000 patients that the majority of them live in the top or tout . The Center for Disease Control social one of realty index meaning that they're some of the most vulnerable Californians in the state and as some of the other discussions have shared. Many reasons for that but this pandemic has really shown that our health care infrastructure is is fractured. We haven't really learned our lesson. Today we have so much data that we can look at to really quantify what equity is really about and what's been very disheartening to me and to the providers that we serve here the patients we serve here else and that is that we keep telling people that help is coming and far from it every time that we go up and we're in line whether it was for her personal protective equipment for call the 1000 test thing and now that seems somehow we end up at the back of the line and you know it is the chief operating officer I was navigating this crises. It's not only shame on on on all of us here in California but how is it that we can live to this ideal of equity if constantly we're not holding ourselves and our decision makers accountable to making sure we're using a data driven approach and we've been preparing atic me as a community center we've been preparing for this vaccine rollout since we heard about it probably and you know sometime in the summer. Only to be told that there's no certainty about how many vaccines we're going to get. There's limitations on who can get the vaccine and where. And we can move it around and and then ition So that just having the tech not logical challenges all the integration we're being asked with very little investment and I do think that that is part of the story here is that where we're obviously this pandemic is is an accumulation of so many social injustices that have been done or that these communities have experience and now it's really our turn to really live up to that ideal that body and make sure this vaccine rollout improves and improves rapidly I think many of our patients are tired of waiting and they're going to they're being asked to go back to work and so we see all these conflicts and we're trying to reconsolidate them but we do need help Yes So when you say lack of investment the vaccine is free but free to distribute them and to make sure that your vaccine people that's a cost to you Are you saying the community health centers aren't getting the resources they need to do that part of it. Yeah the the resources the certainty around how many vaccines they get the resources have not been clear in addition when we speak of equity it's really about going to our patients are and there's plenty of studies show in place based approaches I mean that the vaccine should not whether you get the vaccine or not should not be determined by where you live your zip code or what I keep patients you have for how much money you make and I do think that that is what's happening is that we're not getting enough support and then we're asked. To come in now we're at being asked to commit to high volumes of vaccines and we have a short amount of time to distribute them administer them and equity it doesn't work like that we've got to meet our community where where they are and we've got invest and make sure we get those back teeth out there and it's going to take more and as a California as a one of the you know the the 5th largest economy in the world it would be a shame for us not to invest in making sure we get the vaccines out and stop the death the fenceless deaths that we're seeing caused by the spend on that because what's wrong with right now this state has passed highs hospitals and mass vaccination sites What role do community clinics play that they don't. Well we're located in some of the most underserved communities I'll tell you my patients walk here they some of them actually use walkers to get here. And so part of it is how do we get them to to these mass vaccine sites we're doing what we can we're trying to partner with folks to get them transportation but many of them also share that they want to come to our site that they trust because of their doctor or nurses and also they want to make sure that if they have a reaction they have somewhere to go up that they go somewhere where they receive the vaccine and those are the stories that we are hearing we also hear a lot about patients are patients who have responsibilities not only work but maybe they are caretakers at home for somebody and so they have to arrange a whole array of different supports in order to just get out of the home to get a vaccine and so if it's further away it adds more challenge and also that. Trusted relationship with the doctor that also has that giving it any instances a vaccine has it in for you I imagine. Yeah definitely you know what we what we see quite a bit in our patient population many of them not only have multitude of chronic conditions and we're again seeing that the state is moving will be faster announcing that you know by March March 15th will will have the opportunity to start really backs in aiding not only our gullible patients but also those with a multitude of chronic conditions that we serve. But they haven't shown as much hasn't and see I think that they think we're has it so they look at us and they keep saying I just got off the phone actually with a patient right now who basically said When can I come in from out vaccine I've been waiting since the beginning of the year and we continue to tell people that they have to wait their turn but we're also hearing about another family member who just got a call that ended up in the hospital I see them passed away and so we're trying to do our best to prevent that from happening knowing that there is a way to do that to this vaccine. When we have listeners who are writing in and again you can e-mail your comments a Sonic a can the history dot org post them online to Twitter or Facebook a key committee for McAuliffe 866-733-6786 Jorge writes the low percentage of Hispanics in California already vaccinated is based on simple demographics I took my 97 year old mother for her vaccination the Aged just then dropped to 65 and above at 68 years old I'm the only one of my family that qualifies my wife is under 65 years old and our 4 adult children are all under 35 Euro years old the vast majority of Hispanics are below 65 years old so they are not eligible it really is a young population isn't it Sanya d.s. . Yeah and you know that's precisely right this is where data matters and data about the population especially the poor rowdy population in the state of California is critical so Latino median age in the United States is 30 for black Americans it's age 34 regime Americans age 37 for white Americans it's 58 when we see who is dying in a coma 19 it is not our white Californians for a variety of reasons access to health care provider ability to stay home shelter in place physically distant and so if we want to and unnecessary loss of life of Californians we simply need to vaccinate our workers and we need to do that now and they're young. Let me go to college Dorothy in Berkeley Hi Dorothy good morning so my suggestion is that the state equip fans and have portable vaccination site they go to the workers they don't have to prove there or king in the fields or anything they just go right there where they're working or the Safeway or ever it is and vaccinate people so I was wondering how the state could invest in these events that are equipped with the equipment that they need to keep the vaccines safe and just go to the people rather than making them come to you 2 or 3 things proper fader Ostrov I know that there has been some mobile vaccination units is that would Dorothy you're talking about of the state investing in that kind of thing. I think they are in terms of giving money to community based organizations and eventually some clinics to do that type of work so we're saying is that there are those for emerging but they tend to be at the local level where people know how it would work on the ground rather than something imposed at the state level. Let me go to Mary in Sacramento hi Mary hello yes I called the practice the channel one from the represents the clinics in Los in the Los Angeles area could respond I get here on n.p.r. And I. Hope that I understand it correctly that the binding and ministrations is going to be sending additional doses of vaccine directly to federally qualified health centers which would be I believe the famous community clinics and this is about to be above and beyond the allocations that the states get and it's so that should help the lower income neighborhoods that those clinics serve and I'm wondering if what I heard if I heard it accurately and if the gentleman from the clinics in l.a. Who would care to respond thinks Dr Frank thought a month this is that so that's not right. Mary that's correct we were very pleased to hear last week that the by the House of this trade show will be directly getting vaccines to us we did hear from our human resource service a ministration her side that will be getting vaccines and that is a temporary way for us to get vaccines I think we continue to share this message that to me how centers are really the backbone across the country I mean we share not only rural but also undershirt community we were in some of the toughest places in terms of making sure that we can get access to care to people that not only are uninsured but may. Be under insured or an even undocumented and so this this administration has not only been responsive and it also speaks to you know again yet we are this isn't particularly task of getting these vaccines out and shoot the prior administration left community health centers out consistently and so we're really pleased to have the buy a house in a strange and support me house centers we take care of millions of people here in California and again we build trust I mean also met we've been here for 50 years. People come to us with a variety of different challenges not as medical social and we are always looking to make sure that we live our mission of eliminating those disparities that all of us think help or not worry about and we know that these are the same individuals that oftentimes again are serving up a cent grocery stores are caretakers and so their health is as important because we come in contact with that so that is again a huge investment from this administration that we welcome. The new that scene mass vaccination site from the by the administration that's now up and running at Cal State l.a. Though it is a massive vaccination site do you think it will it will be more successful in terms of reaching hard hit Latino populations. And I think N.G.'s and in fact are still images of love to share your hot take I threw out very post to tell state Ali it's in North East Los Angeles this is an area that has been hard hit akin to southeast Los Angeles and other parts of the state like the Fruitvale and the Oakland ultimately citing a back to mation site in a frontline community is a start but you need to ensure that they have access to marketing appointments and if that access point is all digital communities a problem for low income communities digitally under-served communities are going to be left out because access to a vaccine on an online portal not only requires a lot of infrastructure but it requires access to asymmetrical information and system long as we start thinking about coded as a war and starting to take care of our health care workforce so that we can ensure our communities have access to providers and have the trusted messengers that are assisting these members of our communities to obtain an appointment that's how we're going to recover for. Nighttime the design of have anything to add Yeah. Yeah . It's everything is important in this war in terms of. Centralized efforts and mass back vaccination site they serve a purpose. But the fact that again early on before any looted in the dust and that the centralized effort. And again we you know using using data to really look at. You know these communities I mean when we were testing patients at all to met our peak of positivity rate was 40 percent. And again we're still compiling our data on the number of calls a desk we've we've had it at all to men but we can tell you that we are doctors we're constantly on the phone with emergency risk. On their shyness I'm sure that those patients had access to 2 hospitals and we want to we we can't let our guard down both the fat mass I serve a purpose but also be centralized sites and a better partnership for us to work together to make sure that all the vaccines are used that that it gets to the hard hit areas and we're also in California I think there's a lot of innovation that has proven very successful I mean many of us again have the ability to to get services into our home that previously maybe we weren't used to but because it's endemic it's become a necessity but we can't forget about those communities who don't have access to broadband the digital divide is real we see it in the care we provide we try to offering video we we struggled through it and very challenging for us to do video care the majority of our points and of being telephone care but we still see improvement in people's health and that's part of our commitment to making sure that not only are there mass back he cites but that some of the smaller providers in the communities also have access to and provide a back seat. Well Fanny writes I'm over 50 with asinine a school employee and I can't get a vaccine appointment anywhere in the Bay Area my turn allows me to register multiple times there seems to be no cross check the public is demanding schools to reopen and we want to go back to work but not without a vaccine It's beyond frustrating but a fatalist of you were talking about how the online system privileges people with time people who have technology and reliable transportation if they want to be able to get a vaccine once they've been able to sign up for it online can you just talk very quickly about how the state is is addressing that thinking about that anyone just dealing with some of the glitches in the system. Yeah it's it's been a pretty messy it's also a really big job so the state rather late in the game did put up a statewide vaccine registration system it's called My turn it's my turn dot ca doc of and it is supposed to kind of unify a lot of the local registration systems again all online with you know a hotline here or there to let people know both when it's their turn to I for example I registered to be notified when it's my turn specifically as a person under 65 and. Then went to it then it's supposed to bring in online all the county registration systems right now it's working for I think San Diego Los Angeles and perhaps felony to county it's still a work in progress and it has been kind of glitchy. So it's again it's evolving it will get better I think more of the point that I want to pick pick up is that once age was thrown into the mix earlier than expected that really put a burden on all of the online registration system I will have more with our professor Ostroff Intel mentors and Sonia Diaz after the break stay with us you're listening to forum I mean you can. Coming up tomorrow on forum in the 1950 s. And sixty's when some towns faced integrating their public pools they drained them and nobody could use them economic and social policy expert Heather McGhee says this is 0 sum thinking has impacted the u.s. Economy and the public for the worse from the financial crisis to rising student debt to collapsing public infrastructure McGee tackles these issues in her new book The Sum of us what racism costs us and how we can prosper together she joins us to talk about it to listen to and subscribe to our podcast visit k.q.e.d. Dot org slash forum and for the latest updates on our programs and guests find us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter. You're listening to forum I mean it we're talking about the challenges Latinos and other vulnerable Californians face in accessing vaccines and the status of the state's vaccine rollout with. Contributing writer at Cal matters she reports on medicine and health policy Dr Tom and his chief operating officer for all to med health services a network of community health clinics in Los Angeles and Orange County's and Sonia Diaz founding director of Latino policy and politics initiative at u.c.l.a. And your listeners are with us what are your questions about the vaccine bowled out what's been your experience trying to get a vaccine for you or your loved one what are your thoughts on the disparities that are impacting the Latino community call us 866-733-6786 again 866-733-6786 get in touch on Twitter or Facebook at k.q.e.d. Forum e-mail your questions or comments to form at k.q.e.d. Dot org John is on the line with us health director of the Latino task force for coping 1000 in San Francisco thanks for joining us John. It is an honor to be on Good Morning and you have a testing a vaccine site in even Justice Mission District which you've called a success can you talk about why you feel like what's happened there is a model for reaching specific hard to reach populations. Well you know I think this is one of the few victories if you will that I think community can claim in a very dark period of time I think for our country for many that don't know that this effort this commission district has been a very firebrand you know community dating back to the fifty's sixty's and on right has always been a newcomer community for the Irish the Italian and Mexican American side with or the I went to but I think as we have all now seen through this pandemic that economic inequities have given us these disparities these very painful disparities and you can see them it's kind of like the you know the iteration of racism in action right even equities and caused through different racial and class groups and country and really in our city and our neighborhood the Mission District has wide swath of community leaders that have been fighting since the sixty's and seventy's different or deal as we've had to go through which interview cation disinvestment from the city and what that has culminated to is this very unique leadership of multi-generational leaders folks that have been fighting for decades some newer and we came together to form that up you know task force or Latino task force is rooted in community world community organizers were not a 51 c 3 you know we're just folks that pandemic gun violence gentrification will be on the front lines fighting and this group was able to partner with the University of California San Francisco to find very very innovative ways to do things and achieve things and one of those was discovering this right at this covering but really rolling out this idea of low barrier testing and we're talking about disparities throughout the state we're talking about the lack of connection. Into information you know the city here for the city county San Francisco and for a large majority of states of course a bunch of online portals you know very amazing to use very pretty web sites but when you have a disconnected population the society which also happens to be the ones that are living in congregating living situations the ones that are the essential workers keeping this running you have them unfortunately not be able to connect to these things and so our model was really rooted and bringing the testing to the people going door to door registering folks with tablets answering their questions about what it is a test is what does it mean what is the vaccine now that we've rolled out to the stage of it and bring it to the neighborhood where they are so they can show up same day and get tested and our rapid response model allows us for them to get a response for their whether they're coded positive or coded negative within an hour we're able to get them services that same night food or cleaning supplies should they not have that connect in the city programs like the rice recover policy that we help watch here and now across the street we have vaccines while I'm very happy for not for my neighborhood in the Mission District in San Francisco I fear for the rest of the state because I know that this is not a reality and low income neighborhood and it's something that the state leadership has left to desire have the to have the engaged here about how you have made your model such a success so that they can replicate it in some ways in other parts of California. Not yet I mean we're definitely you know working towards and always open to talking to the California Department of Public Health to the governor's office but this model I just want to kind of highlight for listeners on any given day with our 5 Little 100 tests that we do here at the 24th mission we're capturing anywhere between 16 to 45 percent of all of the city's positive because of our support program we are able to ensure that 97 percent of the folks that test positive are supported and can stay home without having to leave their house if you think of that in terms of you know who the essential workers are it ensures that folks are going into grocery stores that folks aren't going back to their work that they have to work at and spreading the virus and so we're here in the open you know to talk and splurge how this model can be sent to the different low income neighborhoods throughout California which are more greatly impacted than others right because it's the other part of all of this the that part of it where you're ensuring that people do not get sick it's the whole reason that you want people vaccinated as well in terms of your that's the nation's per day what are you having this right. Right now we're doing about $120.00 but we're obviously angling to get as many as we can we're working with the city to try to expand the amount of vaccination locations that we have throughout the city and county of San Francisco again this idea of mass back sites are great if you have access to online systems if you have the ability to drive to a location or bus to a location and if you feel enough comfort to be able to get to these areas but if you don't you're you're missing a large segment of the population which is arguably the most important one to reach given the pandemic and who it's impacting just a little bit of time is here you know requires an appointment you know require additional appointments and people can walk right. That's right right now we're having people walk up which is also it's simultaneously heartbreaking to be clear to have people that are in their eighty's ninety's having to wait in line because we helped develop a system set up with the city and county of San Francisco had to be able to take them same day of course you know the city is doing what it can the state is doing what it can but we have to be John Jacobus thank you really appreciate having you on thank you John Chicago health director of Latino task force took over 19 in San Francisco and let me go now to caller Donna in Santa Maria hi Donna Hi Thanks for actually my call I actually just wanted to say I'm out here in Santa Barbara County Santa Barbara County as long as I lease priority counties in California but we are heavily here in Santa Maria a lot of our economy is popped up by the farm that's a cultural labor you couldn't farm workers indigenous farm workers. They slipped past year I worked with one of the community based organizations here and Libya getting information to indigenous farmworkers thing closing speakers and I think with the current discussion I'm very much glad that a lot of people are recognizing the technology divide that exists to them Barbara County the only way you could have registered for. Tessina was either calling of the color line or. Registering online and if you were banished from that course because that was basically impossible task and they were not accepting talk up call off the. Availability at all in any of the point many sites up until very recently and I just want to reinforce that yeah there is a huge divide among farm workers here in Santa Barbara County where they will not give a priority back to Nishan right now currently in February. The low time when our workers do have time to set up appointments go to clinics get vaccinated whatever they need any medical care they need they usually take the time in the winter to do that my parents are farm workers they grow strawberries all year round here in kind of Santa Maria and yet where where still not given priority even though where the highest effective population serious and Barbara County Santa Maria specifically is the highest impact a community and we're still not given priority about vaccination specifically farmers there's an indigenous farmworkers Well done thank you for sharing that and I guess I want to get our guests to react to it in just a moment there's another caller that I want to bring in as well and I'll have them react to both comments let me go to Mimi in Riverside County Hi Mimi. I thank you so much for having me I am echoing the same sentiments the other caller has made here in the 1st just for the listeners to. Let the mix community we are about 47 percent of the entire world the 2nd right that's how much the population. By putting the percent. That's hard to. Do In The. No one's doing anything yesterday the city council with purpose I. Specifically brought up this fact the council women said you know what the looking the population here the are getting hit hard what can we do. The city of Riverside only has one vaccination site that has that lock 33 at the Riverside convention center the spokesperson for that site says they only have 500 backs in appointments a day and when they are pushed to make comment their response their hands are tied they cannot tell me if they have to change any aspect of that vaccine site or as Mr John Jacob Jacopo just mentioned if we have low tech no tech interventions if we have mobile units even if we set aside a 100 Bechstein that will make a huge difference in just the secure server side let alone. But no one wants to do anything and once again in the city council meetings there is only one left the next number of that. Chord and she was the only one that made a comment and no one else got anything so this is not just heartbreaking for listening it is heartbreaking for the members of the community because if you want to raise the the the spokesperson said they cannot do anything about it they need to see a need they need to see community input where can you give input other than n.p.r. Right well meaning thank you for sharing that and I can hear that it's also heartbreaking for you and Barbara feeder Ostrov we've been hearing over and over again from listeners from our other guest go to the people go to where the people are the state has now contracted with Blue Shield as this 3rd party provider they're saying that Blue Shield top priority is equity is any of this what we're talking about part of their plan to streamline and speed up vaccine distribution Yeah I think we see others definitely going to be held accountable for getting back scene to the most marginalized communities but it's going to have to be a partnership effort with what are called trusted messengers the community based groups that have been working in their communities for a long time that are trusted just like Dr Solomon senses clinic. And. We shall discuss and of the logistics manager for all of that but the actual work on the ground has to be done at the community based organization level the clinic level and the people who can really be trusted and are you know the ones that are working with these populations on the ground and my heart really goes out to the caller because you know we hear a lot of language at the state level and from state and local leaders basically saying equity is our north star and it's a lot of platitudes sometimes when you think about the very real consequences of the slow pace and the inequities in the vaccine rollout I mean we did some calculations from new state data that is available and we're seeing that well let's you know community makes up about 40 percent of California's population they have been vaccinated at a rate of about 17 percent of all of the people that have been vaccinated so far knowledge in that the data is still a little messy at this point. Let me go to caller Susan in Sebastopol and before I do let me just remind listeners you were listening to forum I mean you can I says and join us. I would like to know what the data. Is a person who is age 60 to $64.00 less likely to die if they contract coded then a far more career in their twenty's to thirty's. I. Think I mean are you getting at this question of what the state is whaling in terms of the goals of reducing death trying to try get to the people who are more likely to die from the virus and reducing the burden on our health care system as well as keeping our society functioning by doing it on an age basis is that what you're asking Susan. Asking from the standpoint of having the fewest people die from Cove it. Possible to how they administer. The policies and how they administer the backseats So I would like somebody to answer my question is a farm worker in their twenty's to 30 is more or less likely. With age 60 to $64.00 it's only a guess at. The state to really prioritize I'd absolutely love to take that because what's really important is not just about age it's about access to a provider almost all of these deaths associated because the 19. Are unnecessary no one should be dying and what we're seeing is that at the point that that farm worker or that essential worker actually makes it to a bed in the hospital and isn't she dated it's too late because hospitals don't have the same access to care and especially the base care for all of these workers who are facing Cobra 19 because they are keeping America safe here question we did a study at the u.c.l.a. Left the no policy in politics initiative study New York City and Los Angeles we thought about the study with New York was at the center of the u.s.s. Cole the 1900 pandemic that has since changed and Los Angeles has remained the full cry what we saw is that Angelenos between the ages of 18 and 40 young people. Had the highest rate of infection and so this underscores that workers are getting infected why because they're not staying home they're leaving their house to go work we know the population demographics show that like you know households have almost one more person in their house than non white Hispanics they also have more workers more adult workers more children and so when we think about this age it's not it is a false choice to say age over workers age over young people we should be focused on vaccinating the people who are dying a getting infected the people who are medically underserved we know that we don't have the back scenes that we need we know from the Biden administration that vaccines will become me that allegedly come July all Americans who want to get vaccinated can but right now we need to stop the catastrophic deaths occurring in our Latino communities and in our working households and that factors in to one thing which is getting them a vaccine making sure they're vaccinated and that is not going to happen on an app or with restrictions that have a disparate impact on their access was joyrides I've been distraught trying to make people aware of the problems encountered by Latino people Latina a Teano people during Kovac 9 people died in my extended family ranging from ages 17 to 83 I hear for other families including my students whose families come from diverse income and labor sectors it is distressing to can you to see to continue to see how inequality extends and all aspects of society for blacks and Latinos. Motivator us Dr I just want to ask you looking ahead we are hearing have more vaccines are coming do you have any sense of whether that process is improving. Yeah I mean that's in supply is definitely improving we have production ramping up for the 2 vaccines that are currently authorized by the f.d.a. And there is a new single dose vaccine from Johnson and Johnson that is expected to be authorized fairly soon however we are in a race against new more infectious variants such as the u.k. Variant and a couple of that have cropped up in Colorado. And so basically the idea is to get as many people vaccinated as possible yes and the people who need it the most I'm so sorry to interrupt you Barbara fater Frank Telemachus and Sonya Diaz thanks to all of you for joining the conversation this is form. Funds for the production of forum are provided by the members of k.q.e.d. Public Radio and the Germana Coast Foundation and the generosity foundation now to join McConnell for a brief conversation about Highway $1717.00 southbound pack Melby or before Bear Creek Road all the way past Idlewild because of a tree trimming project with one lane blocked into one this afternoon and the only other traffic jam in San Francisco in 1900 northbound pack from Noriega to Lincoln because of the underground sewer work Joe McConnell were key Cutie thank you Joe support for k.q.e.d. Today comes to us from good eggs delivering organic produce grocery Staples meal kits and wine from local producers in the Bay Area their delivery area and more is available at good eggs dot com of Certainly fresh groceries delivered sunshine in Sacramento today 64 today is high in gusty winds a possibility up to 30 for the Bay Area sunny today highs in the upper fifty's to the mid sixty's partly cloudy tonight maybe some fog and the lows in the thirty's to the forty's good morning thanks for listening on day Freeman on k.q.e.d. F.m. San Francisco and. North Highlands Sacramento now 11 o'clock. Funding for here and now comes from Mathworks creators of mad line in Simulink software accelerating the pace of engineering and science learn more at Mathworks dot com from n.p.r. And w.b. You are Boston and Peter Odom and I'm Tanya mostly it's here now. Coming up millions of Texans are still without power and summer without water with more winter weather in the forecast also a new lawsuit against Donald Trump over the Capitol insurrection and the 7 Republican senators who voted to convict Trump in the impeachment trial face ridicule from their own party we did not share their actions Sharon here and there are 2 of you who are right there were certainly there were and. The song you're hearing is the debut album of a baby girl created by her parents before she was even born the album sounds of the unborn coming here and now. The news is 1st. Live from n.p.r. News I'm Lakshmi saying talk show host Rush Limbaugh for decades one of the most influential conservative voices in media has died at the age of 70 his wife Catherine broke the news on her husband's show today Limbaugh had advanced lung cancer in December during his final show of 2020 Limbaugh spoke frankly to his audience about the physical and emotional impact of learning that he was terminally ill and told his listeners he felt blessed my point in all of this today is gratitude my my point everything to share with you about this is to say thanks and to. Tell everybody involved. How much I love you from the bottom of a sizable and growing and still beating heart Limbaugh in an excerpt of a show that aired on News Talk $1290.00 shortly after learning of the diagnosis roughly a year ago then President Donald Trump presented Limbaugh with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. The bunny ministration is moving ahead with plans to set up additional vaccination sites in cities across the u.s. N.P.R.'s Winsor Johnson reports the move comes a day after the White House announced plans to ramp up supply levels and distribution efforts the administration says for the 1st time the government has activated more than 1000 members of the military to support community vaccination sites it's also deploying National Guard troops and retired medical personnel to administer the shots White House coronavirus task force coordinator Jeff Zion says the goal is to make vaccination sites easily accessible community centers high school gyms churches and stadiums nationwide and we're standing up innovative high volume federally run sites and can give over $30000.00 shots a week and says the government is also courting aiding with states to distribute vaccines in under-served communities and creating mobile clinics to reach rural areas Windsor Johnston n.p.r. News Washington today's Ash Wednesday the day the Christians mark is the beginning of the season of Lent N.P.R.'s Tom Gjelten reports the current virus pandemic is forcing some changes and traditions that are associated with the day typically on Ash Wednesday Christians are reminded of their own mortality it's especially meaningful in the midst of a deadly pandemic the verse most associated with the day is from Genesis when God tells Adam Remember you are dust and to dust you shall return observant Christians often visit their church to have clergy use ash to make the sign of the cross on their foreheads such practices are not recommended this year because of the danger of spreading the virus the Vatican suggests that priests sprinkle ashes instead on people's heads or their church leaders say people can apply ash on their own at home they say there are many ways to be reminded of the fragility of life and to encourage compassion this is n.p.r. News live from Key q.e.d. News. I'm. On State officials say they're confident the Oakland Coliseum vaccination site will not run out of shots the Coliseum one of the 1st joint federal state vaccination sites now up and running in California started with about $4000.00 vaccinations yesterday in its 1st day open organizers say they'll ramp up to around 6000 in the next day or 2 Brian Ferguson with the state Office of Emergency Services says the Coliseum should not run out of vaccine like San Francisco's Moscone Center we are very confident in is sure that the face levels of the government up on the White House phosphors ahead of your partner that so we're very confident that they'll deliver on the people who are eligible can make a vaccination appointment by using the state site my turn dot ca dot gov or by phone. The San Francisco Historic Preservation Commission plans to vote today on whether the skies star Observation wheel will remain in Golden Gate Park and till March 2025 recreation and park spokesperson Tamara barrack apart and says the wheel was supposed to operate for a year and give out half a 1000000 rides because of cove it it only operated for $39.00 days she says her agency wants the wheel to stay it's become clear that a lot of economic recovery is going to. Look out for states. Bring disservice to the park it also brings visitors to the museum into it or since it does not say if approved the extension would go before the park and wreck commission for final approval American. News support for n.p.r. Today comes from Charles Schwab Charles Schwab is committed to offering a modern approach to wealth management with personalized financial planning to meet and investors specific needs are more at Schwab dot com slash plan and the listener's. Seasonal temperatures dry conditions a week from all system will bring some rain chance of chances back to Northern California tomorrow afternoon into Friday according to the National Weather Service widespread rainfall will be likely but limited to north of the Golden Gate Bridge dry weather then returns for this coming weekend along with a warming trend into early next week. From n.p.r. And w.b. You are in Peter O'Dowd and I'm Tanya Moseley it's here and now people in Texas are miserable right now after the entire state was hit by a winter storm that brought snow and frigid temperatures millions of people have already gone more than 2 days without power a lot of people don't have running water and it's not over more snow and freezing rain is falling today in parts of southern central and eastern Texas let's bring in Dominic Walsh he joins us from San Antonio he's with Texas Public Radio and Dominic some people are going into their 3rd day with no power give us a sense of the scope of these outages it's still a massive which is the operator of the state grid here in Texas says there are still 2700000 households without power and you know that's not 2700000 people that's 2700000 households with families lots of people we're talking about millions and millions of people who have now gone you know 48 hours or more without power. What what are these power companies saying today about when power will be restored and why this storm caused such a massive power failure in Texas. So as for the 2nd part of that question though the why it's the same problem that we saw on Sunday you know as this snow started to fall and temperatures started to plunge demand for power for heating surged at the same time a bunch of power plants were knocked offline by the weather because they were not properly weather for a winter storm so you had so Eugene supply you had surging demand and drop in supply that's why these growing blackouts started since then the storm has also taken offline you know various pieces of equipment so you have a mix of you know supply and demand driven blackouts as well as equipment damage during blackouts as for when that will be resolved there has not been a definitive timeline laid out just yet what other companies are saying is you know hold tight they're working on it but really might not be resolved until the temperatures start to rise which might be later this week into the weekend but again no definitive timeline Ok Dominic to add to this measure of the misery as I mentioned there are people in the dark and without running water or with very low water pressure and there are boil water notices in some areas what's going on with the water. Yes I want to do a show really depends on where you are I can tell you at my apartment in San Antonio the pipes have been frozen sends you know late Sunday and other parts power to water treatment plants have been affected so water treatment plants in some rural areas have been knocked on offline so there's areas of either shut down water or have put you know boil water notices in place in other areas like like Houston there's very low water pressure because people have been dropping their facets. That's affected the water quality Houston now has a boil notice for its water but here's the thing about these boil notices in Texas a lot of homes rely on electric stoves if your electricity is out you can't heat the water you can't bring it to a boil so yeah it's a problem for a lot of people across the state and even even even if you do have water and you supposed to boil it you might not be able to if you don't have electricity. There is another storm bringing snow and freezing rain today people in Texas are not used to navigating roads in this kind of weather and without power we're hearing that stop lights aren't working how are the roads right now the roads are still terrible officials are saying do not drive if you don't have to you know I believe tomorrow will mark the one week my of that awful pileup in Fort Worth more than 100 vehicles at least 6 people killed in that pile up things have gotten worse since then so the messaging from all the officials is stay off the roads if you can Yeah the weather has also ended food and other supply chains are grocery stores and pharmacies and other businesses open. Some of them are it depends on where you are what business it is some of them are but you know trucks haven't been able to make you know consistent frequent supply runs so the supply lines have have fallen short we're seeing a lot of photos and videos of empty you know grocery stores shelves you know targets here in Texas Wal Marts all of them are starting to run short on supplies so even if they are open they might not have everything you need and because of cutting 1000 precautions there are often long lines outside of the grocery stores stretching for blocks and blocks people having to wait hours to get inside to a grocery store that doesn't have everything they need yeah we know there are warming centers and for the pantries open a lot of these nonprofits are asking for donations Dominic you mentioned that your pipes are frozen How how are you doing. I'm Ok so I actually left my apartment and with a coworker now we fortunately does have power because they're on the same circuit as critical service for folks who might not have power or water though the thing to do if you are you know looking for help is if you're in a city call 311 if you're in a rural area call to 11 they should be able to give you resources in terms of where to go for warming centers food pantries other things like that there's also a lot of mutual aid work going on right now but even all of the services have been impacted by the weather so and also cutting 1000 as complicated some of these warming centers so various cities are starting to open up more resources and again 311 for cities 211 for rural areas to find those resources thank you so much for that reminder and you stay safe Dominic thank you so much thank you Tanya That's Texas Public Radio's Dominic Anthony Walsh in San Antonio. Well former President Trump could still face legal consequences for the capital insurrection despite his recent acquittal by the u.s. Senate Democratic Representative Bennie Thompson of Mississippi has filed a civil lawsuit against him accusing the former president of conspiring with far right extremists that stormed the Capitol last month here's Thompson on c.n.n. Last night I'm convinced they're. Irresponsible if we bring in this action I look forward to having my day in court Emily basil on has been following this and other legal problems pending against Trump She's a senior research scholar at Yale Law School and a staff writer at The New York Times Magazine Hi Emily Hi So Congressman Thompson is invoking something called the Ku Klux Klan Act alleging that trump conspired to interfere in Congress's certification of the Electoral College count What's his argument. His argument is that President Trump made specific threats this is what he would have to show to win the Congress men including actions that threaten the right to vote and prevent federal officers from doing their job so this is a law that was passed in the 870 s. When there was a lot of concern about the Ku Klux Klan threatening black people terrorizing them and terrorizing members of Congress in a way that threatened the right to vote and so the idea is to take that law and apply it to Trump's role in the assault on the capital on John Rice sex. Has that law ever been used in modern times it's been used rarely not because it couldn't apply but because the Supreme Court in the 870 s. And eighty's was pretty hostile to it and blocked a lot of claims by black litigants and so it kind of fell out of favor recently the n.w.c. Legal defense fund and a couple of other groups have tried to kind of resuscitated and so that's what you're seeing here is this idea that this historical law could be relevant in modern times given these very particular facts Well this is interesting Trump was acquitted by the Senate in his impeachment trial of course and it was considering some of these same questions but of course what Thompson is doing here is a civil lawsuit so what kind of legal hurdles does he have to clear in order to win . So he has to show that there were specific threats made that would prevent federal officers from doing their jobs that was the thing that Congress was concerned about in the $870.00 s. Was the idea that there were members of the k.k.k. Who were preventing the federal government from ensuring the right to vote and that was a particular context in you know our tortured history about race in this country and then the question is whether Trump's remarks and encouraging of the Capitol solemn refusal to stop it really is a pleasurable here because it was also a kind of threat that didn't let federal officers address the right to vote will this of course are not the only lawsuit the former president is facing is also under investigation by the attorney general of New York and the district attorney of New York those cases touch most mostly on his business dealings what kind of threat do they pose for Trump I mean the the most basic way to think about this is as an inquiry into tax fraud and this question of whether Trump and the Trump Organization have inflated the value of assets they own to get favorable loan rates and to get tax write offs and whether this could even merge verge into criminal activity so that's what both the New York attorney general and the Manhattan D.A.'s office are investigating and there's also what's going on with Georgia prosecutors they're investigating Trump's attempts to overturn the state's election and that phone call that he made to the secretary of state what are the range you know we talked about a couple of cases here one of the range of consequences that the former president might be facing Well in some ways the Georgia inquiry is the most serious because this could lead to criminal charges against former President Trump the district attorney in Georgia is investigating whether the facts of that call to the secretary of state that encouraged him to you know quote find votes that would presumably flip the election whether that is criminal solicitation to commit election fraud. We usually give public officials some pretty broad range and being able to challenge election results because we want to make sure that those results hold up but if Trump was doing something that was actually pushing election officials to change the results fraudulent lay and if he knew that was what he was asking that could be fraud. And really does want senior research scholar at Yale Law School and staff writer The New York Times magazine thanks very much thanks for having me. Twitter is under pressure in India to block accounts that the government there claims incite violence the tech company gets reversed course and is now stuck in between defending free speech and keeping its employees out of Indian prison. But there's an important book for media companies I've actually getting that story this afternoon on All Things Considered from n.p.r. News you'll hear the story along with news later this afternoon starting at 430 I'm sure Europe's top human rights court has ordered Russia to release a jailed opposition leader Alexina Valma the court warrants that failing to set him free immediately would mark a breach of the European Human Rights Convention Russia's justice minister dismissed the demand as unfounded and unlawful. The United Nations nuclear watchdog says its director will travel to Iran this weekend that is part of an effort to find a mutually agreeable solution that allows it to continue its inspections in Pennsylvania Health officials say the state is facing a shortage of the medina vaccines 2nd shot they say that is because some providers inadvertently used it as the 1st shot of the 2 dose Kovac 1000 vaccine the state says the error affects more than 100000 people who will need to reschedule appointments for their return of vaccine shots you're listening to here now. Here's what's coming up on. The next fresh air. For everybody. Former President of the progressive think tank she says racial discrimination in housing employment and voting rights in America has harmed white people African-Americans She's written a new book called. Joining. Us from Geico offering car insurance as well as services for homeowners and renters through the insurance agency Mord 1809. Funding for here and now comes from the listeners of w. Boston and your n.p.r. Station and from indeed committed to delivering quality candidates to businesses so managers can focus on hiring people who can help them succeed learn more and indeed dot com slash credit. This is here and now President Biden is back in Washington today where he's pushing to get his economic recovery package through Congress and just last night in Milwaukee at the 1st town hall of his presidency he made some bold promises about vaccines and schools reopening n.p.r. National political correspondent Mara Liasson joins us now and Mara let's hear what Biden said at the c.n.n. Town hall last night when he was asked about vaccines we came into office there was only 50000000. Doses are available we have now by the end will have over 600000000 doses enough to vaccinate every single American. It's a big promises you know on track to get that done well he's on track to hit it if a lot of other things fall into place if the supply keeps up if he finds enough what he calls vaccinate towards people who can actually administer the shots and the White House put out a vaccination progress chart today with a 7 day average of daily doses and they're going up they started January 13th less than a 1000000 doses of vaccines a day administered now February 10th through 16th $1700000.00 a day if you kept on going and that rate yes you'll meet his target All right we're going to keep a close eye on those numbers Meanwhile on the issue of education the White House has had some miscommunication recently about schools reopening but last night Biden said that his goal was to open the majority of cases through 8 schools in the next 100 days that is different Mara than what we've heard from his press from his press secretary That's right he corrected that his press secretary had said a remarkably low bar of what he meant by school opening she said that it meant having half of them having in person instruction one day a week by the end of the 1st 100 days last night in that meeting by said That was a mistake in communication he wants to see k. Through 8 classes back 5 days a week and it's important that he do this because school openings is becoming a huge political issue Republicans are saying the Biden administration isn't aggressive enough to get kids back into school that they're kowtow into the teachers unions opening schools to many Americans is the single most important signal of getting back to normal in addition to the many many reasons why it's so important for kids and parents to get schools open again so this is become a political issue and the president wanted to correct the record last night you know unless was his 1st big appearance in public after the impeachment trial he likes these kind of events hasn't got to do them very much because of the pandemic How did he do in the spotlight when you think I thought he did fine he was. All the things that Biden is he was empathetic he seemed to know his brief he also was very loquacious and also kind of boring he went on and on times but he didn't make any big gas which is always the concern about Biden as a political performer but this is a format that he likes he likes to engage with people many times he said to questioners could you stay after and I'll see if I can help you we'll give you some more information so I think he did fine. N.p.r. National political correspondent Mara Liasson thank you so much You're welcome. What you're hearing is a selection. And it was created by her parents before. Our Elizabeth Hart the bases from the band psychedelic ills and producer Ivan Diaz day they used synthesizers and bio sonic devices to record and translate the sounds of Elizabeth's womb and Elizabeth and Ivan join us now welcome to the show. I think every new parent when they they 1st hear those sounds of that 1st ultrasound feel like this is music to my ears but you actually took this one step further take us to that 1st decision to turn the sound of into an album. Well he had been working a lot with this by a sonic mini device with recording plant music so as I had progressed in my pregnancy we recorded this album when I was in the last trimester 8 months 7 and 8 months. We wondered what it would be like to try this technology on me yes and so Ivan you've been playing around with this let's let's talk a little bit more about this technology as as Elizabeth said it's called a Miti It's a device connected to Elizabeth's stomach that fed data into synthesizers that were at your hands can you describe more about how this works and how actually how long this process was I've been I think the simplest example of the success of. Is the. Electromagnetic impulses the changes in the current. Us Yes people have developed from which this. Translated into. Midi notation for people who don't know what midi. Musical language that carries or contains the information of what nodes in what the solution for how long that's the information that we received from. The combined that is translated into this score if they were the musicians choosing what to play and sympathisers are the sounds that choose. This been picked up this took quite a while right each session took about 5 hours 1st session was kind of a. Feat in the ocean trying to understand what we could get from this experiment. Then I would be in the studio and she would sit in front of the speakers and we would blast the music pretty loud because we wanted her to be nursed in this music that she also was producing in real time you know to be influenced by what you are producing is very interesting this is so interesting because what you're saying here is he also are trying to keep the integrity of musical autonomy as you put it specifically as you describe a way to allow her message to exist in its raw form Let's listen to the song on the album called the 4.3 part. And wonderful music is that the interpretation of it is in the hearts and the minds of the listener and a lot of times that's separate from the original and tenor of the artist but what you're saying here is this is Lukas message so I want to know from both of you what messages do you hear when you listen to the. The song I'll start with you Elizabeth Well I think for me it's just sort of you know you wonder thing especially as it gets closer to the time when you're going to meet your child of what are they thinking because when I was pregnant I kept feeling like she was really quirky or something enter now the things that make me laugh are this thing about this technology and this thing is that it's actually not intellectual music that you know the sounds aren't chosen like I would choose to bright something on bass or guitar other things it's just what created the impulses and so to me that I don't think it's a direct message but it's an interesting way of thinking about it you know it is I mean for you I've been are you thinking in this way too right it's not intellectual music but as a little bit said you know she was trying to think about the personality of her child any person who's been pregnant before knows they're making a lot of movements in there and when she can actually hear that on an audio level it kind of changes the dynamic and what what you're actually hearing what do you hear when when you listen to that this music for me the most beautiful girl standing part of the project is so they said we're saying that this is no intention behind when we play you see there's an intonation 93 there's relief of we want to convey with this. Autopilot you know you would draw a driver and suddenly you're going places that you were going yourself you know yeah yeah so for me as an engineer it was a beautiful it's like if you were a kook and they bring you this great degree to a cool experience for sure let's hear another song. Elizabeth Luka is 15 months old right now and so now you actually know her personality very well and there's no guessing has she hurt the album has has she responded in the way that only a 15 month old can at this point if she actually has heard it will she has because when we were mixing the album she was always there so she was exposed to it a lot during the Nixon process and she did seem to recognize the music like one time we had something else plain and then switched to this music and she kind of looked at both of us like I know what that is there's you know and. Yeah I thought this mix was done. Well how should listeners approach this album I think this was like going into a lab with Tommy in the chemical background you know. He was like Ok list play in this playground of sounds Let's see will do we can do with this new way of generating new Saeco writing music and certainly took us through a totally new journey Well thank you for allowing us to be on your journey through this album that was Elizabeth heart and Ivan Diaz my day on the album sounds of the unborn create it using the sounds of their daughter while she was in the room look as album will officially be released in April Elizabeth and Ivan thank you so much thank you term thinking. And you're listening to hear. A constitutional crisis in Haiti. Not only. But. This is unacceptable. In our history and. We'll explain what's happening in the role of the u.s. Government going forward. And that's next time on the take away from w n y c. And it's coming up at one the softer noon right here on member supported k.q.e.d. Today on this Wednesday where support for k.q.e.d. Comes from simplest the mortgage lender whose technology searches over 50000 offers to deliver the right refinance options private data stays private with simplist more information that sie I s. And p. R. Dot com. Coverage of breaking news made possible by k.q.e.d. Members like you one way to help us bring you the coverage is by donating a vehicle you no longer need more about our program and how to make a donation. Cars Thank you. Sunny skies today Sacramento about $64.00 today's predicted high look for clear and chilly skies tonight generally low $32.00 to $42.00 for the Bay Area also a sunny Wednesday upper fifty's to the mid sixty's today's highs turning partly cloudy maybe some fog a late night after midnight possibly the lows tonight and overnight in the low thirty's to the mid forty's a chance of rain in the forecast tomorrow afternoon funding for here and now comes from the listeners of w b u r Boston from Mathworks creators of Matlab and Simulink software for technical computing and model based design math works accelerating the pace of discovery and then generic and science learn more at Mathworks dot com and so Novia a global biopharmaceutical company marking 10 years of commitment to science and innovation by helping people with serious medical conditions working to advance healthier lives in its communities some of the take on tomorrow learn more it's an o.b. And dot com. This is here and now President Biden is meeting with labor union leaders at the White House today on the agenda infrastructure and green jobs the meeting follows a new report from a former secretary of Housing and Urban Development that could inform Biden's long term infrastructure plans here now transportation analyst Seth Kaplan has more on this story Hi Seth Peter so what do you need as want on infrastructure from the White House and what do we know so far about President Biden's plans or what unions always want is jobs good jobs and. President Biden wants to vest a lot in infrastructure of going to clean energy clean transportation projects he's argued that that can go here and in Him and with jobs he started off a kind of a bad foot with labor unions because one green initiative was to initially to immediately cancel the Keystone Pipeline the 1st day on the job for him and that resulted in layoffs so now he's back to showing them look he wants to spend trillions of dollars and that's going to create a whole lot more jobs in his view than than the Keystone cancellations cost it by learning very quickly that there are competing interests on every issue right so for sure there's a new report from the former Hud Secretary Henry Cisneros and the can do Institute for Urban Research that may be guiding some of his thinking here on infrastructure it identified about 800 product projects that Biden should focus on let's take from we're not going to take you all ballistic through at least what you think the priorities look like they could be. There are 3 big categories he said essential infrastructure after the pandemic climate resilience and urban rural connections and one thing I thought was interesting was one thing in particular that showed up in 2 of those 3 categories and that's broadband and Peter as you know for a lot of us we can joke now about the the dial up internet but for a lot of Americans in rural America especially those things are still here they still don't have fast Internet and that is now essential infrastructure in the report makes that point that infrastructure isn't just what we picture traditionally is infrastructure you know a bridge for example but something like broadband which is the lacks in a lot of America would require some public investment to get there because the problem there is that it's just so expensive to do that the companies that provide a lot of us with fast internet service aren't willing to do it on commercial terms in rural America what are some of the big ideas for transportation you are transfer to. You know lost after all. Yeah you know they're too. Clean transfer so that means electric vehicles 1st of all the scene of big moves that recently was a big automakers really are embracing acknowledging that that that's the future but there are 2 sort of a gap in terms of an opportunity perhaps for public incentives to get that going and that of course could create jobs as well and then when it comes to energy if you know how focused this week this report was a long term project not now prepared with what's going on in Texas and elsewhere in the mines what we see now all kinds of needs in that regard to alternative energy could perhaps diversify the energy supply and help with a situation like this comes up in the future you know this is all great in theory it will be tough potentially to get any of these things through Congress but we'll see here now transportation analyst Seth Kaplan thank you so much for your time thanks Peter enjoy listening to your no. Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski was one of 7 Republicans who voted to convict Donald Trump in his impeachment trial she's now a pariah totally on the right and will be in repose could Alaska's new open primary save her from a Greek e.o.p. Voters and help her get reelected next November on the next Morning Edition from n.p.r. News join us tomorrow morning for Morning Edition on k.q.e.d. Public Radio 2 am until 9 am tomorrow morning. I'm sure the Biden administration today set forth a plan to fund increased coronavirus testing it includes expanding testing for k. Through 8 schools and boosting domestic production of testing supplies and materials the South Carolina House has approved a ban on nearly all of Borsch and the state's Republican governor says he will sign the bill as soon as possible the state legislature is following the lead of other states with similar measures that would take effect if the u.s. Supreme Court were to overturn Roe versus Wade in Minneapolis city leaders said today they are beefing up security plans preparing to close streets and making sure businesses and residents are well informed as the trial approaches for the former police officer charged in the death of George Floyd The mayor says safety will be a top priority jury selection is slated to start March 8th You're listening to hear and. I'm Judy Woodruff on the next news hour back to Lars Miles O'Brien explores the latest mission to understand the red planet that's Wednesday on the p.b.s. News Hour the Mars landing the latest one tomorrow we'll hear more about it today on the p.b.s. News hour at 3 support for comes from a Mercer Van Gogh exhibit San Francisco to accommodate more visitors this $360.00 degree experience has been extended to September 6th tickets available now advantage go s.f. Dot com. Here and Now until one today the takeaway after that Join us for international stories and news on the on the world it too all on the public radio today 88.5 f.m. In San Francisco and 89.3 f.m. In Sacramento. Funding for here and now comes from the listeners of w.b. You are Boston where the program is produced and your n.p.r. Station from Avi f.x. Boston based and offering virtual events services coast to coast for events meetings or announcements to bring them to life more at a.v. F.x. Dot com slash virtual and n.p.r. And Morning Edition on this station tomorrow morning what happened while you were sleeping and the news interviews and analysis for the day ahead national international and local news tomorrow on Morning Edition from n.p.r. And w.b. You are I'm Peter O'Dowd and I'm Tanya Moseley it's here and now the state of Georgia is looking to overhaul its citizen's arrest statute it's a statute that was used to defend the 3 white men that chased and shot a modern black man last summer who was out jogging the ability to arrest a citizen dates back to the Civil War and it allows citizens to detain someone if a crime is committed in their presence or with their knowledge there is no evidence that Aubrey had committed any crime Emma hurt from member station in Atlanta has been following the efforts to change the law and she joins us now in the welcome I found you. High so a group of mostly Democratic lawmakers began advocating for the repeal of this statute back in May How with this proposal which is spearheaded by the way by the Republican governor change the ability for a citizen to arrest someone. Yes So right now as you mentioned the statute is really vague it allows anybody if you witness a crime to arrest somebody else doesn't say anything I should add about killing someone which is what happened a moderate as we know in this new plan would repeal that statute and replace it with one that just allows really specific kinds of citizen detainment as they're calling it like a shop owner who witnesses a shoplifter and it also explicitly prohibits any use of force except in self-defense Ok as I mentioned this dates back to 1863 and this this law was established during really one of the worst periods of racial tension in our history and it's remained unchanged as you said what was the original intent behind it. Yes So provisions like this really date back to medieval times kind of the ideas when police couldn't arrive on time or law enforcement wasn't around citizens had to take things into their own hands and the Georgia law as you said dates back to 863 in the states original code which was which was drafted by a secessionist but we don't know exactly we don't know what the exact intent was we know that Georgia leaders have decided that it really leaves too much room for what they're calling vigilantism So people taking the law into their own hands that's what the men who are in jail for are breeze murder say they were trying to do even though there's been no evidence that he committed the burglary they accused him of and it's also why our breeze death has been called a modern day lynching because this really does evoke so much of what we saw in the south especially in you know decades past what's the next step in this process of overhauling the statute. This is a really good chance of passing it's got the gov support of the state's top Republican officials and Democratic leaders in the legislature as well who've been calling for this since May And you know if the past is any indication there was a similar push to pass Georgia's hate crimes law in the summer after our breeze death and that sailed on through so we're expecting this to move pretty quickly and smoothly this is really a 2nd promise that lawmakers made to the Brunswick community along with citizen's arrest after after the outrage that's hurt with member station in Atlanta thank you so much thank you for having me Tanya. The Republican senators who voted to convict former President Trump continue to face backlash from their own party Republican senators Bill Cassidy of Louisiana in Richard Burr of North Carolina are the latest to be censured by their state parties the chairman of the North Carolina Republican Party Michael Wadley explained his decision today on Morning Edition you know as a member of the Senate you have the absolute right to vote your conscience how you feel but at the same time we felt that it was important to put out a statement saying that we disagreed with those actions Let's get another perspective from Douglas hi he used to work for Senator Byrd is also a former spokesman for the Republican National Committee he's on Skype Douglas welcome thank you and what kind of statement do you think the North Carolina Republicans made by censuring Senator Burr. Ultimately a dumb one I've known Michael Wadley for a long time I like Michael but if you look at the statements that he's made he's tried to bend over backwards to say we still like Richard Burr he can make his vote of conscious but we have to make a decision here he knows this is the wrong thing to do and hundreds of state activists doesn't represent the broad swath of voters and let's remember Richard Burr was elected to represent Republicans he was elected to represent the entire state and then Meanwhile since the election in North Carolina alone more than 15000 Republicans have left the Republican Party and have registered on affiliated if I were to elect more Republicans in North Carolina I don't spend my time fighting one of our own who's been there for 20 years fighting for North Carolina I tried to register more voters and look to why voters are leaving my party you say he knows it was the wrong choice but this vote was unanimous I mean there was no dissent at all even in the decision to censure the senator. So we're going to go with. Yes Yes Look I saw him on c.n.n. With John Berman you know yesterday where again he went he bent over backwards to say Richard Burr still a good senator you know having worked for Richard I know that he focuses on doing the right thing 1st and doing the politically expedient thing 2nd so what's going on I mean what's what are the conditions like out there that are forcing these Republican Party members to do this why so it's a loyalty to Donald Trump 1st and foremost and some of that is fundraising some of that is wanting to be a part of that team even though it's a team that again is hemorrhaging voters in state parties throughout the country what they're doing unfortunately means that as the party gets smaller it gets trumpy or so they're listening to those loud and angry voices even more but county chairs and state chairs are not voters as you know this is not just happening in North Carolina we've seen a censure vote since the election really in places like Louisiana Arizona Wyoming in Pennsylvania Republicans are considering censuring Senator Pat Toomey who voted to convict Trump and here's a county Republican chairs name is Dave Hall talking about Tunis vote on k. D.k.a. T.v. In Pittsburgh we did not get in there that boat instructions were not changing there you are right they are whatever setting there were and we sent him there. Did you ever think that you would hear something like that from someone in the Republican Party absolutely because I already have I remember in 2014 when I worked in the House of Representatives our Republicans were pushing a series of bills that we called making life work to deal with things like employment training and flex time for working parents and a Republican member on the floor said to another why are we doing all these things to help people and so it's not a surprise to me because Donald Trump is as much of symptom as he is the cause of where Republicans. Our this pre-dated Donald Trump it will outlive Donald Trump but the reality is for that county chair Pat Toomey I can't speak for Pat Toomey but he wasn't elected to serve a particular county party he was elected to serve all of Pennsylvania and let's not forget that Joe Biden won Pennsylvania right you know I'm looking at what happened in Utah sure you saw the senator Mike Lee voted to acquit the former president Senator Mitt Romney voted to convict and the state party as Republicans we're talking about censuring Romney the state party released a statement this week that said the differences between our own you Tom Republicans showcase a diversity of thought in contrast to the danger of a party fixated on unanimity of thought what do you think about that statement with what's going on in Utah there when it's almost an approach it's refreshing to hear something like that part of that though is Donald Trump is not popular and you talked he underperformed there last time but you're talking Republicans know proceed at your own peril if you want to you know really be a part of Team Trump it's a dangerous road to be on we often see national politics through the lens of Congress right but how much power do you think these state and county parties actually have in shifting the dialogue in the direction of politics in this country . On the local and state level they have enormous influence they have an impact on the structure of the Republican National Committee but it's not moving anything broadly when it comes to voters you know in his statement Michael Watley talked about the 100 county chairs but there are a lot more than 100 Republican voters in the state of North Carolina just as there are in any state and those voters aren't focused on the internal machinations of the county or state party they're looking for issues and results and as Republicans spend time going after their own again especially when they're losing Republican voters it says the 20 twentieth's which historically should be a good year for Republicans may not be because they're willing to give away voters in the name of Trump. Used to work for North Carolina Senator Richard Burr also a spokesman thank you thank you. Hi it's me can host a forum at 10 we've been through a lot together recently from the end of the company ministration the coronavirus and now we've said goodbye to Michael Krasny but it k.q.e.d. We believe in the future as I helped lead forum in k.q.e.d. Forward I promise to always be thinking of you our listeners as we consider where we're going to stay white farm conversation every weekday at 10 am. Support for k.q.e.d. Comes from Eric and Wendy Schmidt whose philanthropy includes Schmidt Ocean Institute working to advance the frontiers of ocean research sharing the connection between life on land and life at sea whether everyone everywhere Schmidt ocean dottle or. Funding for Hera know comes from the listeners of w.b. You are Boston for Mathworks creators of Matlab and Simulink software for technical computing and model based design math works accelerating the pace of discovery and engineering and science learn more at Mathworks dot com and w.b. You are in few Turow studios presenting a new podcast anything for Selena lifelong fan and host Maria Garcia explores how Selena kin Tanya changed music pop culture and American identity now on Apple podcasts. It's here and now scientists trying to map the Pacific sea floor got an unexpected assist from the world's 2nd largest mammal. These fish and well songs are usually treated as noise by seismologists because they muddy up data gathered at the bottom of the ocean but new research published this month in the journal Science found the loud chirps that fin whales make actually have a similar effect as the advanced instruments seismologists use to peer into the earth's oceanic crust. Is a post-doctoral fellow at the Institute of geo physics in Prague this discovery was part of his research at Oregon State University and he joins me now to talk about it welcome to the show. Thanks for having me let's hear a little bit more of what these Fin whale chirps sound like these are fin well calls that have been sped up 10 times so they're all to the human ear. Tell us about when you realize these sounds might be more than just noise. It was actually quite an coincidence I was working with seismicity and we had these ocean bottom seismic stations on the on the ocean bottom and when I was searching for the data and looking on something that will serve great related I realize those are a few miles and because I'm a seismologist I found out that there might be some signals that are actually not just the water waves that are traveling food of water but also some subsurface signals give us a sense of how loud these whales are so they are very loud those are one of the loudest soms in the ocean they are about $189.00 decibels which is comparable to engines of large ships so they are very very very loud Were you surprised no one else to to use well songs in this way before actually yeah I was quite surprised because from. Being a seismologist this is kind of an obvious use of them I suppose that mostly different about calls and other whale causations that have been studied extensively by biologists and by people who are interested in whales themselves and of that much of seismologists that would be looking at it from a different perspective so yeah I was quite surprised that nobody had fault of this before Ok let's break down your work a little bit so what exactly are you trying to figure out about the sea floor and how do you typically go about getting that information so in seismology it's a quite common that you are trying to display what's underneath the ground meaning if you are trying to find out what the fitness of crustal layers are and also what's the seismic of all city in those layers and we need to know these things for many applications like oil and gas industry uses this information or wall but also for scientific up locations for geology climatology. And seismology too so we always need to have some kind of a source of figured all that travels beneath the ground and then bounces off layers in the ground and then receivers that can receive the signal and based on the time that the signal travels from the source to the receiver we can calculate the fitness developed city with and growth. And the source is you fairly something that is called an argument which is like a quite large pressurized chamber but those are also were expensive and and also they create a lot of months in the ocean that is being debated could be harmful for ocean wildlife Well that's interesting with the air gun and how do the well calls compared to the air guns and they are not as wild as our guns and also the funerals there are quite a narrow frequency range and they are guns they are much more broadband so they go from d.c. Low frequencies up to hundreds of herds so characteristics of the Psalms or of the signal definitely favors the Aragon However if you know whales are just out there already and you have recorded so many of them and also we just don't need to create artificially go signals that may bother the wildlife out there do you think this finding could reduce the use of air guns in the future well the females can definitely replace our guns because they can put a crate deeper and we can get high resolution of the subsurface However using their guns is very expensive and also it's being quite a bit regulated so I think at some places where we cannot afford going to use our guns for it political reasons we may get like some supplement from different real calls and we can use them in a similar manner. But love you're a seismologist benefiting from biology but could it go the other way too I mean fin wells are endangered could this research help biologists and conservationists actually protect them I think you know way it can and will cause has been studied on ocean bottom seismic stations previously so I would not say that my study is the 1st of its kind in this manner studying or using psychological tools to study whales is definitely possible on and we can track whales and we can maybe estimate quantities and you. It's similar to what I wrote in the paper. Is a post-doctoral fellow at the Institute of Geophysics in Prague thank you so much for sharing your work with us thanks for having me. And here now is a production of n.p.r. . And this is with the b.b.c. World Service. This is. Funding for here and now comes from Boston and staples with supplies to get business done no matter where it gets done from toner cartridges to technology like webcams and networking accessories Murrett Staples stores or Staples dot com Staples join us tonight at 8 for a special broadcast of selected shorts. She looked away from her mother and straightened catching her breath looking out for through the small cracked window they're outside beyond the rising this and further all. Awaited her a celebration of James Baldwin this week on selected shorts a pm tonight for that special had to rebroadcast tomorrow at 1 o'clock in the morning now to for traffic starting in the Santa Cruz Mountains Hi Julie Dave who do expect delays Highway 17 southbound between I'm a college road and Summit road the right lane is shut for tree work for about another hour or more tree work in same county that's close with side road Highway 84 both the rections and center say some much construction there on a rock Avenue off ramp from northbound 680 close for fence work until 230. And support for k.q.e.d. Today comes from Challenger School dedicated since 1000. 3 to inspiring children to embrace challenge and find joy in self-worth through achievement open enrollment happening now locations and details the challenger school dot com Thanks for listening I'm Dave Freeman on k.q.e.d. San Francisco. North Island Sakhr.

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