Welcome to hardtalk. Im stephen sackur. Is there a single russian who doesnt expect Vladimir Putin to contest next springs president ial election and win it easily . Mr putin has yet to declare his intentions, but his desire to prolong his dominance of russia is surely not in doubt. Less certain is whether the president will face a credible opponent. My guest has declared her intention to run. Ksenia sobchak has one big advantage almost universal name recognition thanks to her tv career but is her candidacy anything more than a fig leaf for the kremlin . Theme music Ksenia Sobchak welcome to hardtalk. Thank you. You have a very big ambition. So what do you think it takes . What are the qualities, the assets needed to be president of russia . First of all, in modern russia, the quality which is needed to challenge putin and to challenge him for a change is to be brave, because elections in russia now are not elections in belgium. It is not like trying to become a Prime Minister in not very big european country. Here, when you come into politics, you can face very big problems and there were already raids in my home, i was. All my work was finished after i said about my political views, years ago, and my life really changed dramatically six years ago, when i first went out on the streets to say what i think about the system. Now, when im taking the challenge, i recognize all the risks that come with it and that the situation can be harsh for me. Bravery that seems important to you and i understand why and i want to talk to you about exactly what you have experienced in the years since you decided to join the activist opposition but i am surprised you do not use any words like experience, or knowledge, or sort of an encounter in the past with managing something significant. I mean, you are a woman in your 30s, you have no experience that could possibly be relevant to becoming president of russia. Yeah, thats why i did not mention experience, because now in russian politics, to be brave, to be persistent, are the main qualities. I am not a politician, i am a person, a journalist who knows that the situation in my country is unjust and i would love that in my country would be Fair Elections where everyone, people with big experiences, with different kind of political views, could take part and debate and i could come back home and do myjob. No, the situation is not like this. There are not so many people really willing to take this challenge so i think it is my responsibility to be brave, to be persistent and to try to change. Around me, there are are a lot of experts, a lot of people with big knowledge of economy, of politics, of institutions of russia, who are part of my team and they are helping me rally a lot to form a Big Programme and to be together. The thing is, usually, with politicians, or wannabe politicians, who come into the hardtalk studio, i am testing their resolve and their ability to do the job theyre trying to do. You dont even seem to believe yourself that you have what it takes to do the job, because when you were launching your own campaign, last month, you said, i have no political weight, i havent earned the right to launch some kind of Political Programme or truly to stand as a candidate. You dont even believe the stuff yourself. No, stephen, thats not like this. I would say, again, that i think the most important thing in russia is now to change the system, and this is the most important part of this programme. Of course, i will form a Big Programme and im doing it right now, with lots of experts on economy on different kinds of things but i want to stress one thing, this is not that important now because we can list all the programmes in the world and they were listed but they never managed to come to life because the system itself is so that any programme you offer, it is always rejected so what is the point of being hypocritical on this. Well, iam. Lets say the truth, that the main thing is to change the system. But the point is, there needs to be a credible agent of change and i would say that, to many people, you are not a credible agent of change. I mean, if we look at your record you were a reality tv star, you were the star of a show called blonde in chocolate. It was 15 years ago, stephen. Well, yes, im looking at your record. You also hosted the reality show, dom 2, which is sort of the big brother of russia. Yes, and i was also the first journalist of the world, even before cnn, who took an interview of mikhail khodorkovsky, who went out ofjail. I was the first to interview. You have had several big interviews, youve also sold a fragrance how to marry a billionaire. It was 15 years ago, stephen. I would suggest to you that, overall, your track record is not that of somebody who is serious about becoming president of russia. You know, in russia, we have a very good film i recommend it to watch it, to you it is called baron munchausen, and in the end, the hero of the movie says, the most awful things in this world were done with the most serious face so people first laugh at you but then they fight with you, but then you win. As you know, the saying. So i am not afraid of being ridiculed in someones eyes. I know i am not ridiculous. I know that i have done a hugejob and ive done it for many. What huge job was that . For six years, i am working on the only independent tv channel, called tv rain, i make a lot of journalist report works, i have done a lot of interviews. I helped Alexei Navalny with some. We will get with navalny injust a moment. Its important to get to Alexei Navalny because his views on the your candidacy are important, but before we get there, you said to me, look, stephen, dontjudge mejust on my experience. Let me finish, please. The point is this is a question and answer, and my question is this, you said judge me on the people i around me and who ive hired. One person you hired to run your campaign was mr Sitnikov Alexey sitnikov. Two weeks after you hired him, he left the campaign, saying he couldnt take it anymore, it was chaos, it was as if the whole thing had been designed on the back of a cigarette packet. Still, i want to answer the question about my profession, because this is important to me. The things you mentioned happened in my life 15 ears ago, that is a huge time. For this time, people already come away from prison and begin new life. So six years ago, i started my career as a journalist and i really did a lot of sensational work, not only in terms of russia but in terms of international journalistic work so i think this itself gives me the right to present myself in a different way. Well, interesting you say that. And a lot of people. I mean. Im a journalist too, i have been a journalist for 30 years, im not sure that qualifies me to be Prime Minister of the uk but nonetheless, just address the point. But when you say about the support, when i came to the campaign i had zero people who really believed in what i do. Now, when we have sociology, it is already io . Its more than on the last elections Mikhail Prokhorov had at the end. 10 after one month of my campaign is rally a lot. It depends what poll you look at. Another poll has you at i and another poll has your disapproval. No, its the biggest poll of sociology, its called vtsciom, you can check the numbers it gives io . I with 9 saying they might support you, but it also suggests that more than 60 disapprove of you and only 20 approve. I mean, your negatives are very, very high. Can you even understand, stephen, what is 20 out of 95 of people knowing me . It is a huge number. It actually could be the second place on those elections. It could even be the first place if people really believed they can change the situation. So 20 is really a lot. Alright, your Campaign Manager of two weeks quit saying that it felt like the whole campaign had been written on the bac kof a cigarette packet. This is what Alexei Navalny, who is the leading anti putin, Anti Corruption campaigner in the country a man ive interviewed on hardtalk this is what he said when he first learned that you were going to be a candidate. He said, this is a loathsome kremlin game. No, im sorry, being a journalist, you are not right, youre telling a non truth. He said it before i went to the election. Yes, when your name was put forward as somebody who might run. No, no, no, thats not true. Well, forgive me but. That was two weeks before i put my name. He said, this game is called lets put a liberal laughing stock up for election. It was two weeks before i put my candidacy. Thats what im saying, when your name was mooted, he said, its called putting a liberal laughing stock up for election in order to distract attention. Navalny sees you as someone fundamentally unserious, whos been used. Not now. I wouldnt use the present form because, after i put my name and said i will take part in the elections, i have not heard anything critical off navalnys lips. So you can check this information. This saying was before i went to sign my name. Are you suggesting to me that mr navalny is supporting your campaign . I hope that he will be wise enough, if i will be registered, to support me, because unfortunately and this situation is very unfair, he wont be registered by unlawful laws that are made against him so, if we are fighting for the same goal, and i think we are fighting for the same goal with Alexei Navalny, i offered him this option to be, you know, the person who just opens the door. I am the one who will be registered and i hope, together with him, we can fight for that best future of russia. At one point you said that if navalny is allowed to run and of course, the election authorities and the Election Committee have suggested that because of a previous conviction, he cannot run you have said. Yes, but this is totally unlawful not to make him registrate. Your position still stands that, if the Electoral Committee changes its mind and Alexei Navalny is allowed to run, you will immediately back down . Of course, i confirm it because i think that navalny has much more political weight than i do right now. I really respect his work. I think he is a hero in many ways so, if this opportunity for him will be opened, of course, i think we should all unite behind one leader and he is a good figure for this. If you respect his opinion so much, why do you think he is not prepared to help you gather the signatures you need. If not. I did not finish. But if he is not registered, i dont think its a good option to stay at home, you know . Mr navalny disagrees. He said he will not help you gather the signatures you need to register as a candidate and he said it would actually be better to boycott this charade of an election than have you as the chief opposition candidate. I have not heard navalny saying this so i dont know where you took this but anyway, i do not think and i do not think it is a good idea to have a boycott because sitting at home, no country has ever changed. Its interesting that dmitry peskov, the chief spokesman for mr putin actually welcomed as soon as you declared you were going to be a candidate he welcomed it and said you seemed eminently qualified. Of course, this is what they are doing every day, theyre trying to hug me to death, theyre trying to say to people that she is kremlins candidate and things like this. This is their dirty game. They played this dirty game and, if you know what they did yesterday, i will tell you what they did yesterday, boris titov, who was part of the president ial administration, goes to this elections as a candidate, saying that he goes against putin but it is laughable. He goes against me. Hes my spoiler. So this is a dirty game they play. From one side they say we want her to be part of us i do not want to be part of them. They are trying to hug me so tight in their arms. From the other part, they send a spoiler to my campaign, a person who worked in the administration of the president and now hes against him, this is laughable. Lets test this proposition that you truly, truly are an opponent committed to bringing putin down. Navalny, talking about you, said, the difference is putin has not helped my family, clearly pointing to the fact that putin was the protege of your own father. You knew him throughout your life, he was a friend of the family. I am sorry to disappoint you, to disappoint navalny, but it is better to say that putin was a protege of my father. My father was a mayor of st petersburg. When putin was a junior official. Yes, but navalny says no one helped my father whatsoever. It is my father who helped putin to work with him, and putin was one of the people he worked with. But i was 10 years old at this time. Why have you always avoided saying putin himself was deeply corrupt as navalny puts it, the father of russian corruption . You have never attacked putin personally. When Boris Nemtsov was assassinated, and many critics of putin said putin was behind it, you said, absolutely not, that is not what Vladimir Putin would do. Why do you defend him in this way . Im not defending him. Im just telling the truth, even if its politically not suitable. I really think putin didnt sent anyone to kill nemtsov. I know its beyond what he would decide. Nemtsov was not an enemy. How do you know that . Im just totally sure of the principles on which i stand. He would never do it like this. At the beginning of this interview, you told me youve had raids, that youve been intimidated, that you have to be brave to be a politician in russia today. But to kill someone near the kremlin is something to do against not only their position, but also against putin, because, you know, this situation would be a really harsh situation for putin himself. Look, someone in the opposition is killed on the streets right near the kremlin. And nemtsov i respect him very much, and consider him to be my friend. But he was not a political figure with a lot of weight at that moment, and this is also true. So there was no sense of killing him, because he was not a threat to putin at that moment. So, on that level, you are saying that you dont believe putin has that in him. But, on another level, having told me that you deeply respect mr navalny, and you regard him as the leader of the opposition. Yes. Would you echo mr navalnys position that putin is himself the father of russian corruption, and that the people around mr putin are the most corrupt of all . Would you agree with that . I say this a lot of times, and i would also mention that i personally make a lot of effort into some of the investigations of navalny. And you can speak with him, and he will confirm it to you. At least two of his investigations were done with my help. So of course i think the whole system is corrupt, and the whole of course the system was built by putin. So you would like to see putin investigated and charged . But what im saying that i dont like when people personally insult him, and navalny is also doing this. He was coming in the square and saying, look, he has botox in his face. This i detest. I dont like to speak personally bad about. But you are accusing mr putin of criminal corruption, arent you . Im not saying the way he looks, or i dont call him with some words. Forget about his looks. Im interested in his criminal corruption. Do you want to see Vladimir Putin put on trial . I want to see an independent trial of all the cases of corruption in russia. Of course, yes. Including mr putin . Also, i have a very important goal which i have to reach, with navalny or without navalny. I want to build in russia a party after those elections. A strong party, with strong leadership, which for six next years can come to the next president ial elections with a really big result, in order to have evolution and not revolution of the system. It is not accusations harsh on a person. It is accusations with fact, which should be placed. This is what i think is very important. What did you really mean when you said this a higher transfer of power, the likes of which mr navalny is advocating, is a dead end . You say that your ideal transformation would be led by democratic politicians that mr putin can trust, like for example, former deputy pm alexei kudrin. You seem to be saying that actually you prefer putin in power, with some technocrats around him, and more liberal advisers. This is not what i meant. Then you would want mr navalny, who you respect so much. Ijust said, and i can say once again, that between evolution and revolution i would always choose evolution. And if this way would be done, by putin or by someone else, i think its the best way for russia. The evolutionary way of liberalisation, the new perestroika. This is my main goal. I dont want another revolution on the streets, because this will be blood, and we know how it ends up. But im continuing to wrestle with this simple idea of where you actually sit when it comes to Vladimir Putin in power. I dont sit with Vladimir Putin. Well, correct some confusion for me. I sat with my father when i was ten years old. But, you know, children sometimes really revolt against the system created by someone close to their parents. That is quite logical. Alright, well, clear up one other element of confusion for me, and this concerns russias overseas policy, its foreign policy, and of course, in particular its policy in ukraine and crimea. Now, in 2014, after the annexation, you tweeted, i am alone and proud because you had picked up on some twitter comment criticising the annexation. You said, i am alone and proud in believing it was a brilliant political manoeuvre. Yes, but i didnt say it about myself. A brilliant political manoeuvre. Yes, but youre not translating it the right way. I was answering someone about putin thinking something of crimea, and the idea, i still say it, that for putin, in his mind, that is a brilliant solution. And he thinks that this is the best historical thing he did for russia, and youll see it in the elections. It will be the main thing of his campaign. I made crimea come to russia. So, in his mind, this was a brilliant thing. Not in mine. So, when youre saying youre proud to believe it was a brilliant and political manoeuvre, youre only looking at it from his point of view. Of course. I see. Well, frankly, you didnt choose to tweet your absolute condemnation of the annexation of crimea at the time, but you have done since. You now say crimea is ukrainian. I was this in the dialogue about putting myself into the shoes of putin, who would of course be proud of this. This is his main thing he is proud of. I see, i see. And this is how we stand. We havent time to go through all of your policies, on the economy, foreign policy, everything else. Lets do it. Well, we dont have time, but russia is in a really difficult place economically. There are still sanctions on the country. Your growth rate is i this year. Youre very vulnerable to shifts in commodity prices. Do you believe, going back to this question of experience, that you have the ability to turn russia around . I have an ability to create another system. And the system itself will create another economy, a free economy of trade, a free economy of innovations. The things that are needed is the changing of power. So a parliamentary republic very strong government, instead of a very strong president. I think the most important thing for russia at this moment is to change president ial republic to parliamentary republic, because this will make those powers devolve between different centres in the government. This is very important, and this is what i fight for. After this would be done i believe strongly that, to build an economy based on liberal principles, based on property not owned by government, but by business, and people who really work on it, will be a matter of not a really big time. If, come march of next year, you are the main quote unquote opposition candidates, fighting Vladimir Putin. I am not quote unquote i am an opposition leader. And what happens is this, and it is the most likely scenario according to all the polls, that Vladimir Putin scores an overwhelming, huge victory, and the kremlin says, look, it was entirely legitimate, we had a real election, there was a choice. The choice was putin against sobchak, and putin won a very, very big mandate. How will you feel about that . Will you feel like a useful idiot . It will be legitimate, because your Prime Minister or the president of america would be the first ones to call and legitimate it for mr putin, by their congratulations. Or maybe you have some doubts that your Prime Minister wont do it . So, in your own words, you will be very useful legitimating. Its not because of me taking part in those elections. Because i fight for my people. I want them to be heard. I want mr putin to see how many people are against him in our country, because there are many people who are against his policy. Ksenia sobchak, we have to end there, but thank you very much for being on hardtalk. Thank you, thank you. Hello there. If tuesday was too cold for you are dont think you will find much comfort in the forecast for the next couple of days. If anything, it will get even colder. These northerly winds diving all the way down from the arctic. The air turning increasingly cold. And with that some wintry showers feeding in across northern and eastern areas. Where the showers have fallen through the night through northern scotland, there is some risk of icy stretches. Could be ice across Eastern England as well. Temperatures generally holding just above freezing for the first part of the morning. Many showers at low levels falling as rain. Over high ground, dont be surprised to see sleet and snow. Further west through the midlands into the west country, largely dry, with some early sunshine. A cold start. A widespread frost. The odd shower into West Cornwall and west wales. These will continue through the day. For much of wales dry, bright, but recalled any frost to stop the morning. Some showers into northern ireland. Some could be wintry. Just two degrees there. There is a chance of icy stretches through the morning as well. Away from the showers, there is a lot of crisp sunshine on wednesday for central south western scotland and down towards the south coast. Largely dry conditions would be sunshine. Showers in the west. Wintry showers continued in the north and east. It will be windy as well. 3 3 seven degrees on the thermometer. It will feel colder than that. As soon as the sun goes down on wednesday night, noticed this haze of blue spreading across the map. They widespread frost. Some showers in the west. The showers turning increasingly wintry across eastern areas. Into thursday, High Pressure remains out west. This area of low pressure, if anything, will try to squash in. As the isobars squeeze together, the winds will get stronger. Very windy across eastern areas. Showers mostly confined to areas close to the coast. If they drift any distance inland, they will be wintry, perhaps even some snow to fairly low levels. This is what it will feel like on thursday afternoon when you add on the strength of the wind, for many northern and eastern areas feeling subzero. For friday, the showers will be focused on the south east at first. There could be wintry at times. Then we see some sunshine, still chilly, then a band patchy rain pushes into the north west. Behind that hint of something slightly milder. A milder weekend to come. A lot of dry weather but with a lot of cloud and some patchy rain at times. Im rico hizon in singapore. The headlines north korea test fires another ballistic missile, triggering condemnations from washington, tokyo, and seoul. The pope is in myanmar and so far hasnt referred directly to the plight of the rohingyas. Hes celebrating mass in a few hours will he speak out then . Im kasia madera in london. Also in the programme. We hearfrom families in bali forced to leave their homes in the shadow of the volcano, mount agung. And could this galactic garbage collector help grab our rubbish in space . Live from our studios in singapore and london, this is bbc world news