Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC 20240704

Middle east, yesterday he encouraged a piece deal of some sort, insisting it was essentialfor aid a piece deal of some sort, insisting it was essential for aid to reach gaza on a much bigger scale than ever before. That Press Conference expected shortly and we will bring it to you when we have it. Charles spencer, the brother of Princess Diana has written a book in which he describes violent and sexual abuse at the Boarding School he was sent to when he was just 8 years old. He also reveals how he and diana were hurt by one of their nannies, nanny forster, as children. Laura kuenssberg went to meet him and asked about his first day at the school. I remember the shock of the journey that day and being dropped there by my father. My father, very sweet, decent, loving man. And i look back and i know he hated doing it. In fact, he told me that was the worst day of his fathering for me. I mean, i went back through my family records, a lot of the people who lived here, over 300 years, and you can see this sort of conspiracy among the adults. They knew how brutal it was going to be for the little boys being sent away. And i dont blame my parents or any of the other parents for thinking it was the done thing at that time. I think the idea was that it was essential to blend with people from similar backgrounds, and to take the hard knock the real brutal sort of heartbreak of being sent away from home. And in return you were going to be privileged and part of a set that you could rely on for the rest of your life. You say you felt cast out by your family, though. Does that feeling ever go away . Ithink. One of the things i had, actually, for the book, were my letters home, and i see this theme when i read them, that im always apologising. And i think i know that that was because the only way i could make sense of being sent to Boarding School at such a vulnerable age was that i must have failed somehow as a son. And i dont think any child should really have to feel that. Even before, though, you were sent away to school, you talk about some elements of your upbringing. You talk also about one of the nannies that looked after you and your sister banging your Heads Together painfully. That kind of discipline and perhaps that kind of violence. I mean, do you think that element of that at home had an effect on you and your sister before you were even sent away . I think that really damaging violence to children is going to affect them, whatever house they come from, whatever family they are born into. And that nanny who did that to us, i mean, she used to crack our Heads Together if we were both found to have done something naughty. Obviously without my fathers knowledge, but it really hurt. It wasnt a tap on the wrist, it was a cracking crunch, you know . And i remember it still. I have two older sisters and only later was it found out that a different nanny was punishing them by Ladling Laxatives down them and my parents couldnt work out why they were constantly ill. So you were dealing with a very unstructured world of privileged parents living parallel lives to their children. But you and diana and your other sisters were then brought up even in a Home Environment where staff, nannies who were hired to look after you, were hurting you. Hmm. Again, i dont think we realised that that was wrong. We knew it was painful and we knew it was something we wanted to avoid, but i think children dont know morality necessarily at that stage, or certainly the law. So it was something that we lived with. Lets talk then about when you arrived at school, and in the book, page after page after page describes terrible violence, what seems clearly like forms of paedophilia. Terrible abuse. And you set it out compellingly, brutally and very honestly. Is there a moment, though, in amongst all of that, that still particularly haunts you . I think the problem, why i called it a very private school, it was because it was dominated by a particular figure, the headmaster, whod closed down the school to the outside world. He constructed his dreamworld of having 75 little boys at his beck and call for sadistic thrashings and sexual thrills. If i look at one incident, it seems so minor, if i look at the catalogue of horrible things that happened, was this chilling moment when he caught us all in my dormitory, and the sheer rattling joy in his voice as he called us overfor a thrashing. I mean, i was beaten lots of times, but there was one particular beating which was so violent and painful that i had to deal with that separately as a sort of therapeutic session 20 or 30 years later, because it was so shocking. You just said, oh, it was a minor thing. Mm hm. Its not a minor thing for a young boy to be thrashed violently by an adult, by a strong man. He was addicted, i would. No. He very much enjoyed hurting little boys, and his trick was using a cane. He had various canes with their own names, and his signature was cutting. You know, this was pants down, cutting the buttocks with five strokes and then putting the sixth one across the five. It was something about a focused aggression and what i would now call sexual gratification that came through that evening, thats what shook me. There was also the sexual abuse, actually, from a female staff member. I mean, you were groomed. Yes. As an 11 year old. She was an Assistant Matron at the school, twice your age, someone who you should have been able to trust. What happened, and what effect did that have on you in later years . I think to set the context, this was a School Without Feminine Touch at all. There was one very tough, deeply aggressive matron in charge of the sort of matrony things, you know, clothes, etc. And it seemed so wonderful to have a youngerfemale member of staff who was 20. And i remember i was sent halfway through a term to a dormitoryjust outside her room in the attics. And she started by giving. She had sweets. Sweets, grapes, biscuits and all that sort of thing. And then she started seducing me and others, actually, but as far as i was concerned i was suddenly the focus of some feminine warmth. And it started with lots of long, long kisses, of a sort i didnt really understand at all. You know, french kissing was not something i knew anything about. And then it progressed further. And, i mean, i have to say, and i dont know, ive not talked to many victims of sexual abuse at a young age, it was almost a thrilling secret. I didnt know how wrong it was, i certainly didnt know it was a crime. Its incredible to imagine that nobody knew, that nobody told. What was it like living in that culture of secrecy . Did you think about telling other people . Telling your parents . Did you think about telling other people in your life . You are right, there was a culture of secrecy. And alongside that ran a very strong. I think the biggest rule, unwritten rule in the school, was dont tell tales. Of course, thats very self serving for an abusive environment. And i actually felt, even writing this book, i felt occasions where my conscience said, youre sneaking, youre telling tales on the school, even now, you know, a few decades on. We came from backgrounds where conversations with parents were not as they would be on the whole today. I didnt tell anyone until. In fact the first Family Members i told were my two surviving sisters, who are in their mid to late 60s, and that was about a year ago. Because i thought i better warn them what was going to come out in this book. And they were absolutely stunned. Something you write in the book is that when diana was being sent away to school, she said to yourfather, if you loved me, you wouldnt leave me here. Do you think she was also hurt or affected by being sent away . Well, first of all im so proud of her for saying that. Its so incredibly impactful. To the point that my father remembered it. I would say any child, i believe under teenage years, under13, ithink. I dont think they should be sent away, i dont think its fair. I dont think they can possibly understand whats going on. There are a lot of teenagers who would think, great, i want to get away from parents and thats fine. Of course, its a personal decision but i dont think any child, personally, should be sent away before they hit puberty. When you were there in that terrible environment, you write about how you were self harming. You were making yourself sick. Mm hm. It was very poignant to read of that, of course, also with people being aware of what diana went through. Did you ever discuss those experiences with her . No. So, ive not been diagnosed with anything from that time but its quite clear to me i had bulimia at one stage. And mine was very much connected to a need for some attention. I was, i say it in the book, i felt like i was drowning in an adult sea. We had Metal Chamber pots under our bed in case we were sick in the night, and i used to make myself vomit. And id take it to the matron to show her. And it was, i realise, a complete cry for attention and help. And i never discussed that sort of Mental Illness things, really, with diana. And certainly. We grew up together. I dont remember ever discussing anything from Boarding School at all. She, though, had such a reputation for being able to show incredible empathy. Mm. What do you think she would make of this now, knowing what you went through as a young boy . As a tiny boy . I think she would have been pretty cross. And appalled. And. Yeah, i think she would have been stunned, actually. And the fact that i went to such a tricky place, i think she would have found hard. I know you dont want to discuss the specifics around your nephews, william and harry, but do you think that boarding School Experiences have made it harder for the aristocracy in this country to have Healthy Family relationships . I couldnt answer that because i can only really talk about myself, i think. Its too personal to trample on other peoples family with a view on something as important as that. My personal view is. I mean, ive had seven children and i would never send any of them away. If they wanted to go away, they could or can. Two of them chose to go weekly boarding in their mid teens. But ijust, i couldnt have done it to them, i couldnt have said, right, youre going. I just couldnt. It would break my heart. And its interesting, you write, you asked your contemporaries at school to describe what you were like. Yes. And they use the word angry. Yes. And you were angry for a long time. And everybody was a witness to some of your completely understandable anger, of course, publicly in september 1997. Did the frustration, do you think, at some of the Ill Treatment of your sister, diana, come from some of that buried hurt from school . I dont think she ever understood why her genuinely good intentions were sneered at by the media. Why there appeared to be a permanent quest on their behalf to bring her down. It is baffling. My own and only explanation is that genuine goodness is threatening to those at the opposite end of the moral spectrum. That sense perhaps that you finally wanted to stand up to bullies. I used to take on the press a fair amount. So thats connected to this school. Because i had an absolute hatred of injustice and non truth. And so perhaps when i gave the eulogy at dianas funeral, its hopping on a generation from that, because of their impact on her death. In terms, though, of the provocation that you felt then, driven by paparazzi, and the treatment of your sister, diana, by the press, if you look now, in 2024, at how the paparazzi has sort of developed into this online circus, this online free for all, do you think the dangers of that are perhaps more potent . And if we look at whats happening now around the current princess of wales, do you think the dangers of that online, of the sort of conspiracy world, are more potent than the Press Intrusion that you have fought against . No, i think it was more dangerous back in the day. Ithink. Yeah, if i look back to � 97 and dianas death, i think that was so shocking to. The circumstances of her death were so shocking that it did make the industry that supports the paparazzi really consider more carefully what it could and couldnt do. Not because they had a moral judgment, but because it was unacceptable to the public. Do you worry, though, about what has happened to the truth . I do worry about what has happened to the truth. And in terms of the impact on you, having written this book. You know, you sat on this for decades because of that Culture Of Fear and the silence that was imposed upon you. What was the effect on you of finally putting pen to paper . It took me into very dark places inside of me. I had endless nightmares. I didnt know the appalling things, the really serious things that had happened to some of my friends and contemporaries. And id come back from having met them and interviewed them and be in pieces. And then actually at the end of last year when id finished the book, i had a bit of a breakdown again. And i had to go into a residential treatment for trauma for writing this book. You say it got very dark. Yes, i got to a place where everything seemed rather pointless. Not suicidal, but everything seemed absolutely pointless, because i think confronting. I dont think its an overstatement to say confronting evil is a very. Well, its cataclysmic, really, or it can be. Ive always been intrigued by what people, by what humans are capable of doing to each other. And even my friends would be amazed to know, i havent had a drink for many, many weeks. And just centring myself. And i have emdr, which is a form of therapy for ptsd. Have other people who hadnt spoken out before come to you since then . And if anyone is suffering from abuse and they dont yet have the courage to speak out, what would you say to them . They must speak out. I think so many of these people, when i approach them, i said, whats your memory of this place . And they went, oh, no, no, no, ive put that away in a box for 50 years. And then when they open it, i could see them come alive and be happier. And obviously im not a therapist, im not qualified, but i hope i was a trusted ear. I do think telling people close to you. I had an e mail from someone three years older than me at maidwell, and he wrote to me and said, i just want you to know that you writing this book, ive been with my wife for a0 years, ive just told her what i went through at maidwell and we spent the last hour crying together. You know, i went to a restaurant last night and i was early, and the maitre d came up and hejust whispered to me, i just want to thank you. I went to a school like that. And ive never told anyone. And its everywhere. Power in the truth. I like to think so. Charles, thank you so much indeed for speaking to us today. Its been fascinating. Thank you. In a statement, Maidwell Hall school said it was sorry about the experiences Charles Spencer and some other pupils had had. It said almost every facet of school life has evolved significantly since the 19705, in particular the safeguarding and welfare of children. If you have been affected by issues raised there is lots of information about organisations which can offer support on the bbc action line. Here are some live pictures from jerusalem, we are still waiting on a Press Conference, we are expecting the german chancellor olaf scholz to speak publicly with the israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Mr scholz has been on a tour of the middle east, he was injordan yesterday. He has called for more aid to be sent into gaza. He has also spoken about the possibility of also spoken about the possibility of a planned Ground Offensive in rafah, saying doing so poses the risk of a large number of casualties and would make any Peaceful Development in the region very difficult. When was the last time you physically went into the bank . As more services move online, high street branches across the uk have continued to close. Lloyds Banking Group which runs halifax, the Bank Of Scotland and Lloyds Hasjust confirmed its planning to close another 53 stores. Our Reporterjohn Danks has been gathering reaction from customers in dartmouth. This picturesque town has lost three major banks in the last decade. The hsbc once occupied this spot. The natwest bank used to operate here. And until 2017, lloyds bank served customers from this building. Now, this Mobile Branch which visits every two weeks is about to drive off for good. We have a large elderly population, looking at myself. And not all of them are internet clued up. So they prefer to go and deal with an individual or an office or people. Lloyds bank says 74 of customers already use other ways of banking such as online. Using its mobile app or by telephone. But businesses in this tourist spot say they need somewhere handy to deposit cash. We still got a lot of businesses that use a lot of cash, and also even like ourselves, we set up a brand new Business Bank account, with lloyds bank, and as much as we all love technology, its great to be able to speak to somebody. Lloyds says customers can use the post office for everyday banking and this summer the dartmouth Banking Centre will open here providing face to face support for various banks. There has been a slow trickle of customers to this mobile bank in dartmouth, one couple had made the trip from kingsbridge which used to have its own Lloyds Branch but that closed, from may they will have to go somewhere else. Some may feel cut adrift from the financial giants which once dotted the high street, but the Direction Of Travel is most definitely online. John danks, bbc news. We are still waiting for the Prime Minister of israel to appear, he is due to speak with the german chancellor olaf scholz, who is on a tour of the middle east. It chancellor olaf scholz, who is on a tour of the middle east. Tour of the middle east. It comes after prime tour of the middle east. It comes after Prime Minister tour of the middle east. It comes after Prime Minister benjamin i after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says a Ground Offensive in rafah is certain to go ahead and push back against the International Community for their criticism of it. Today is st patricks day and thousands of people are gathering in towns and cities across ireland to celebrate. The event, which dates to 1762, is one of the Worlds Largest Irish Heritage festivities. But its notjust ireland celebrations are happening in lots of places around the world. Sofia bettiza reports. Millions of people are coming together this weekend to celebrate st patricks day. This, for example, is new york which has the largest Irish Community in the us. You can see lots of people attending the st patricks day parade on fifth ave. But one of the most iconic celebrations is here in chicago, where the tradition is that the Chicago River is infused with about £40 of green dye. £40 of green dye. Everybody is sa in £40 of green dye. Everybody is saying happy £40 of green dye. Everybody is saying happy paddys £40 of green dye. Everybody is saying happy paddys day £40 of green dye. Everybody is saying happy paddys day and l £40 of green dye. Everybody isj saying happy paddys day and it doesnt matter who you are or where you are from, it is fab. You are from, it is fab. Everybody wants to be you are from, it is fab. Everybody wants to be irish you are from, it is fab. Everybody wants to be irish today. You are from, it is fab. Everybody wants to be irish today. And you are from, it is fab. Everybody wants to be irish today. And whyl wants to be irish today. And why not . We all wants to be irish today. And why not . We all are. Wants to be irish today. And why not . We all are. It wants to be irish today. And why not . We all are. It is wants to be irish today. And why not . We all are. It is not wants to be irish today. And why not . We all are. It is notjust wants to be irish today. And why| not . We all are. It is notjust the not . We all are. It is not ust the us, this not . We all are. It is not ust the us, this is not . We all are. It is not ust the us, this is the h not . We all are. It is not ust the us, this is the spanish not . We all are. It is notjust the us, this is the spanish capital. Us, this is the spanish Capital Madrid where more than 500 bagpipers marched in the city centre, take a look. They even celebrate st patricks day in japan they even celebrate st patricks day injapan which is on the opposite side of the world from ireland. These images here are from tokyo and you can see lots of people in green having a great time. So why is it that so many people get involved in the celebration . Even if they have no connection to ireland . St patricks day was originally a religious holiday, but when it was imported to the us by irish emigrants it transformed into a show of Irish American solidarity, and todayit of Irish American solidarity, and today it has become a celebration of irish culture, music and dance. Just going to interrupt and go straight tojerusalem just going to interrupt and go straight to jerusalem for this just going to interrupt and go straight tojerusalem for this Press Conference that is taking place with olaf scholz and the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. If you arejust joining us on bbc news, lets go live now tojerusalem for this joint Press Conference with the german chancellor and the israeli Prime Minister. ~. , chancellor and the israeli Prime Minister. ,. , chancellor and the israeli Prime Minister. ~. ,. , minister. Welcome to you and your delegation. Minister. Welcome to you and your delegation, this minister. Welcome to you and your delegation, this is minister. Welcome to you and your delegation, this is the minister. Welcome to you and your delegation, this is the third minister. Welcome to you and your delegation, this is the third visit i delegation, this is the third visit that you are taking as chancellor to israel, the second visit during the war. We appreciate your friendship, the support that germany has given as well during this trying time. We have had a very serious conversation, an important Competition Among friends will stop you expressed your concerns for two things, one, protecting civilians and second, provision of humanitarian aid. I explained these concerns as well because we agree with both goals. In fact, the army of israel has done more to minimise civilian casualties than any other army in modern times, and certainly any other army faced with such a dense urban author and an enemy that seeks to use civilians as human shields, as hamas does, often at gunpoint. Secondly, we are doing unusual efforts to increase humanitarian aid by land, by sea, by air. And will continue to do more. Mean problem we see is the distribution of aid. The fact it is been looted by hamas and by others. This is something we have to have a joint effort to try and prevent, the responsibility for this disruption and the civilian casualties should be laid at the door of hamas. Israel will do whatever it can to minimise that. Those casualties. And maximise humanitarian aid as needed. We also agreed that hamas has to be eliminated. We cannot have a future for gaza and a future for peace, a future for israel, if hamas, a Terrorist Organisation committed to our genocide, it remains intact. It fit remains intact, it will regroup and reconquer the gaza strip. And as they vowed, repeatedly massacre again and again. Yesterday i met with families of hostages, not yesterday, i am sorry. On thursday i met families of hostages. One of the hostages, a woman, told me that her captors, she was there with her children, and she said the hamas capture who held her hostage said to her, you are going back now, i suggest you go anywhere, go to california. Leave israel because next time we will do ten times what we did to you now, and after that even more. We cannot have this organisation that has murdered over 1000 israelis, we cannot have them in power, we cannot have peace if hamas is there, they have to be eliminated for any possibility of peace and progress. When we talked briefly about the day after hamas, the one thing i would stress as it has got to be the day after hamas, after they are eliminated. That will open up other possibilities but none can be realised unless hamas is eliminated. Can be realised unless hamas is eliminated eliminated. Chancellor, please, thank yon eliminated. Chancellor, please, thank you. Many eliminated. Chancellor, please, thank you. Many thanks eliminated. Chancellor, please, thank you. Many thanks for i eliminated. Chancellor, please, i thank you. Many thanks for receiving me today thank you. Many thanks for receiving me today. We have been on the phone quite a me today. We have been on the phone quite a lot me today. We have been on the phone quite a lot in me today. We have been on the phone quite a lot in the last weeks and months quite a lot in the last weeks and months but nothing can replace a meeting months but nothing can replace a meeting in months but nothing can replace a meeting in person. 160 days, that more meeting in person. 160 days, that more than meeting in person. 160 days, that more than 100 Israeli Citizens are in the more than 100 Israeli Citizens are in the hands of hamas. 160 days of suffering in the hands of hamas. 160 days of suffering for them and unbearable suffering suffering for them and unbearable suffering for them and unbearable suffering for them and unbearable suffering for the families and friends suffering for the families and friends. They are in our thoughts and prayers, just as the memory of the more and prayers, just as the memory of the more than 1200 who were brutally murdered the more than 1200 who were brutally murdered on october seven. We will not forget murdered on october seven. We will not forget them. Best for their memory not forget them. Best for their memory. In the start errors in these memory. In the start errors in these stark memory. In the start errors in these stark hours, my country stands with israel these stark hours, my country stands with israel. Israel has the right to defend with israel. Israel has the right to defend itself against the terror of hamas defend itself against the terror of hamas and all hostages must be released hamas and all hostages must be released. This cruel time must end now released. This cruel time must end now as released. This cruel time must end now as a released. This cruel time must end now. As a replacement Military Operation now. As a replacement Military Operation in the gaza strip has now been operation in the gaza strip has now been going operation in the gaza strip has now been going for five months and large parts of been going for five months and large parts of hamass Military Infrastructure has been destroyed. During infrastructure has been destroyed. During this five months the cost on human during this five months the cost on human lives during this five months the cost on human lives and civilian casualties has grown human lives and civilian casualties has grown to be extremely high, many would has grown to be extremely high, many would argue has grown to be extremely high, many would argue much too high. As a partner would argue much too high. As a partner and would argue much too high. As a partner and friend of israel, i have shared partner and friend of israel, i have shared my partner and friend of israel, i have shared my concerns about the development of this war with the prime development of this war with the Prime Minister. Fighting Hamas Terrorists Prime Minister. Fighting Hamas Terrorists is pursuing a legitimate qoal~ terrorists is pursuing a legitimate goal. Neveragain terrorists is pursuing a legitimate goal. Never again come october seven goal. Never again come october seven the goal. Never again come october seven. The longer the war lasts, the higher seven. The longer the war lasts, the higher the seven. The longer the war lasts, the higherthe number of seven. The longer the war lasts, the higher the number of civilian casualties rises, the more desperate the situation of people in gaza becomes, the more this begs the question. Becomes, the more this begs the question, no matter how important the goal. Question, no matter how important the goal, can itjustify such terribly the goal, can itjustify such terribly high costs, or are there other terribly high costs, or are there other ways terribly high costs, or are there other ways to achieve your goal. Take other ways to achieve your goal. Take the other ways to achieve your goal. Take the Ground Offensive in rafah. Military take the Ground Offensive in rafah. Military logic is one consideration, but there Military Logic is one consideration, but there is a humanitarian logic as welt but there is a humanitarian logic as welt how but there is a humanitarian logic as well. How should more than 1. 5 million well. How should more than 1. 5 Million People be protected, where should Million People be protected, where should they go . I also spoke to the Prime Minister today i also spoke to the Prime Minister today about the need to provide the people today about the need to provide the people in today about the need to provide the people in gaza with comprehensive humanitarian aid supplies. We cannot stand humanitarian aid supplies. We cannot stand by humanitarian aid supplies. We cannot stand by and watch palestinians Risk Starvation Stand By and watch palestinians risk starvation. That is not as, that is not what starvation. That is not as, that is not what we starvation. That is not as, that is not what we stand for together. That is not what we stand for together. That is not not what we stand for together. That is not as not what we stand for together. That is not as. Much more humanitarian aid is needed, continuously, reliably. Ishared humanitarian aid is needed, continuously, reliably. I shared my concerns continuously, reliably. I shared my concerns with the Prime Minister on the provision of aid into gaza