Yes. The have made . For the Horizon Trial . Yes the most have made . For the Horizon Trial . Yes. The most content have made . For the Horizon Trial . Yes. The most content for have made . For the Horizon Trial . Yes. The most content for the yes. The most content for the Horizon Trial yes. The most content for the Horizon Trial i yes. The most content for the Horizon Trial i pulled yes. The most content for the Horizon Trial i pulled from yes. The most content for the Horizon Trial i pulled from the | Horizon Trial i pulled from the investigations that my team had done investigations that my team had done in the cases. Again, i didnt do any searches on my laptop, and in terms of my diary, not that i can recall. And why not . I of my diary, not that i can recall. And why not . Of my diary, not that i can recall. And why not . Of my diary, not that i can recall. Andwh not . ~. , � , and why not . I dont know. Because i didnt think and why not . I dont know. Because i didnt think it and why not . I dont know. Because i didnt think it was and why not . I dont know. Because i didnt think it was relevant and why not . I dont know. Because i didnt think it was relevant in didnt think it was relevant in terms of what information i was giving. Ijust didnt give it a thought. Nobody suggested or told me that was something i should be doing. That was something i should be doinr. ~. That was something i should be doina. ~. , doing. When giving evidence today in re aration doing. When giving evidence today in preparation you doing. When giving evidence today in preparation you seem doing. When giving evidence today in preparation you seem to doing. When giving evidence today in preparation you seem to have preparation you seem to have Research Preparation you seem to have research for the 5th Of December was a Sunday Research for the 5th Of December was a sunday are not. Research for the 5th Of December was a sunday are not. Yes. Why didnt ou rive a sunday are not. Yes. Why didnt you give that a sunday are not. Yes. Why didnt you give that care a sunday are not. Jazz why didnt you give that care and attention a sunday are not. 19 3 why didnt you give that care and attention to previous you give that care and attention to previous occasions when you gave evidence . Previous occasions when you gave evidence . I previous occasions when you gave evidence . ~ , evidence . I think the difference of this Inquiry Evidence . I think the difference of this inquiry approaches. Evidence . I think the difference of this inquiry approaches. I evidence . I think the difference of this inquiry approaches. I had i evidence . I think the difference of this inquiry approaches. I had a l this inquiry approaches. I had a list of documents to review, a list of questions to consider, and i did research that really well, as far as i could. That was a very different approach to when i gave evidence in the two trials. I think looking back and coming into this, i have come into this knowing what more to expect, and i have made sure that i familiarised myself with everything i have been provided with and requested more information when i think there was more. I didnt have that same approach going into the two trials. Flan that same approach going into the two trials. , , , two trials. Can we go back, then, in time, two trials. Can we go back, then, in time. Still two trials. Can we go back, then, in time, still looking two trials. Can we go back, then, in time, still looking at two trials. Can we go back, then, in time, still looking at remote two trials. Can we go back, then, in time, still looking at Remote Accessl time, still looking at Remote Access and looh time, still looking at Remote Access and look at time, still looking at Remote Access and look at pol 00115919 . This is a briefing note, as we can see, this is a briefing note, as we can see, prepared for a this is a briefing note, as we can see, prepared fora paula this is a briefing note, as we can see, prepared for a Paula Vennells in relation see, prepared for a Paula Vennells in relation to the second site review in relation to the second site review into horizon and in particular their report. It is dated the 2nd particular their report. It is dated the 2nd of particular their report. It is dated the 2nd ofjuly at 2013. If you look at the the 2nd ofjuly at 2013. If you look at the foot the 2nd ofjuly at 2013. If you look at the foot of page two for some context. At the foot of page two for some context, please. Ishould at the foot of page two for some context, please. I should say that this is context, please. I should say that this is all context, please. I should say that this is all part of the background being this is all part of the background being briefed to miss Paula Vennells, and this Paragraph Records that you vennells, and this Paragraph Records that you and others met second sight on the that you and others met second sight on the 1st that you and others met second sight on the 1st ofjuly at 3pm to obtain a clearer on the 1st ofjuly at 3pm to obtain a clearer picture of second sights interinr a clearer picture of second sights interim findings on the timing for delivery interim findings on the timing for delivery. So you had seen second sight delivery. So you had seen second sight the delivery. So you had seen second sight the day before this document. 0k. Sight the day before this document. Ok but sight the day before this document. Ok. But like to work out what they would find in their interim findings . Would find in their interim findings . To would find in their interim findings . Would find in their interim findinrs . , ~. ,. , findings . To work out what they would find in findings . To work out what they would find in their findings . To work out what they would find in their interim would find in their interim findings. Would find in their interim findinrs. Would find in their interim findings. Gk. And if we go to page findings. 0k. And if we go to page four, findings. And if we go to page four, under findings. Off; and if we go to page four, Underthe Heading of findings. Off; and if we go to page four, under the heading of the two anonraties, four, under the heading of the two anomalies, says we understand second sights anomalies, says we understand second sights interim report will discuss two anomalies in horizons operation, they were found by post office operation, they were found by post Office Limited and voluntarily communicated to second sight, in other communicated to second sight, in other words neither was found by second other words neither was found by second sight in part of the review. The first second sight in part of the review. The first is second sight in part of the review. The first is badged up as the 62 Ttranch The First is badged up as the 62 Branch Anomaly. This is the receipt and Payments Mismatch bug, if you renrenrber, and Payments Mismatch bug, if you remember, the thing that was discussed at that meeting in the autumn discussed at that meeting in the autumn of 2010, which had become apparent autumn of 2010, which had become apparent to Six Post Office people, including apparent to Six Post Office people, including messieurs marwood, tumble and win including messieurs marwood, tumble and win. That Remote Access was possible. And win. That Remote Access was possible, and allowed the tampering without possible, and allowed the tampering without the knowledge of the Sub Postmasters. It is set out that it affects Sub Postmasters. It is set out that it affects 62 branches, concerns the receipts it affects 62 branches, concerns the receipts and Payments Mismatch in Legacy Receipts and Payments Mismatch in legacy horizon, sorry, in horizon ontine, legacy horizon, sorry, in horizon online, when discrepancies were nroved online, when discrepancies were moved into the local expense account~ moved into the local expense account. It appeared first in march 2010. Account. It appeared first in march 2010, and account. It appeared first in march 2010, and the majority of incidents occurred 2010, and the majority of incidents occurred between august and october 2010. Occurred between august and october 2010, and occurred between august and october 2010, and the losses ranged from those 2010, and the losses ranged from those amounts identified by horizons built and and could have been horizons built and and could have been identified if the Sub Postmaster had carefully scrutinised their final balance report~ scrutinised their final balance report 17 scrutinised their final balance report. 17 branches were adversely affected report. 17 branches were adversely affected. Sub postmasters were affected. Sub postmasters were notified affected. Sub postmasters were notified in march 2011, and were appropriately reimbursed. They were not asked appropriately reimbursed. They were not asked to refund this Stop Predates Separation and would have been dealt with by royal mail legal. Event been dealt with by royal mail legal. Event sets out the reason for delaying event sets out the reason for delaying notification to Sub Postmasters. And then over them Sub Postmasters. And then over them then Sub Postmasters. And then over the. Then it continues on the 14 ttranch the. Then it continues on the 14 Branch Anomaly, something else. Yes . Yes. ~. Branch anomaly, something else. Yes . Yes. , Branch Anomaly, something else. Yes . Yes. ,. , yes. Who was responsible for the summary of yes. Who was responsible for the summary of the yes. Who was responsible for the summary of the 62 yes. Who was responsible for the summary of the 62 branch yes. Who was responsible for the i summary of the 62 Branch Anomaly . Yes. Who was responsible for the summary of the 62 Branch Anomaly . I summary of the 62 Branch Anomaly . I think summary of the 62 Branch Anomaly . Think it was summary of the 62 Branch Anomaly . I think it was simon baker that put that together. Did think it was simon baker that put that together. That together. Did you contribute towards this . That together. Did you contribute towards this . No. That together. Did you contribute towards this . No. Did that together. Did you contribute towards this . No. Did you that together. Did you contribute towards this . No. Did you read l that together. Did you contributej towards this . No. Did you read it before it towards this . Did you read it before it was towards this . Tip. Did you read it before it was submitted to Paula Vennells . | before it was submitted to Paula Vennells . � before it was submitted to Paula Vennells . , �. , � vennells . I dont recall, i dont remember vennells . I dont recall, i dont remember seeing vennells . I dont recall, i dont remember seeing that vennells . I dont recall, i dont remember seeing that before. | vennells . I dont recall, i dont| remember seeing that before. I vennells . I dont recall, i dont remember seeing that before. I cant be sure. D0 remember seeing that before. I cant be sure. , remember seeing that before. I cant be sure. ~. , remember seeing that before. I cant be sure. ~. ,. , � be sure. Do you know why it doesnt ick u , be sure. Do you know why it doesnt pick up. In be sure. Do you know why it doesnt pick up. In this be sure. Do you know why it doesnt pick up, in this context, be sure. Do you know why it doesnt pick up, in this context, the be sure. Do you know why it doesnt pick up, in this context, the remote| pick up, in this context, the Remote Access pick up, in this context, the Remote Access issue . Pick up, in this context, the Remote Access issue . No. Do you know why it access issue . No do you know why it doesnt access issue . Fin. Do you know why it doesnt reference what you knew was a result doesnt reference what you knew was a result of doesnt reference what you knew was a result of the December 2010 enrait. A result of the December 2010 e mail, and the january 2011e mail . As i said. E mail, and the january 2011e mail . As i said. I e mail, and the january 2011e mail . As i said, i dont remember the December 2010 anyway, but. As i said, i dont remember the december2010 anyway, but. No. I just dont remember. I dont remember this at all. Simon was pulling this together, if i remember this correctly. Simon was part of the it and change space, and simon would have been best placed to have that information. Im sorry, i cant answer anything further than that. Can we move on then to 2014, and look can we move on then to 2014, and took at can we move on then to 2014, and took at pol can we move on then to 2014, and look at pol 0039 4439 . Pol pol 0030 4439. And start by pol 0030 4439. And start by looking pol 0030 4439. And start by looking at pol 0030 4439. And start by looking at page three. There is an enrait looking at page three. There is an enrait from looking at page three. There is an e mail from the 10th Of April 2014 from e mail from the 10th Of April 2014 from you e mail from the 10th Of April 2014 from you to Andrew Gwynne and alan moshe from you to Andrew Gwynne and alan moshe by from you to Andrew Gwynne and alan moshe. By this time you head of partnerships, is that right . Yes. We can see that partnerships, is that right . Yes. We can see that in partnerships, is that right . 193 we can see that in the future. Second sight can see that in the future. Second sight has can see that in the future. Second sight has produced its report, the remediation is up and running, and you say remediation is up and running, and you say to remediation is up and running, and you say to alan and andy as part of a mediation you say to alan and andy as part of a mediation scheme case submission, the applicant is referring to an enrait. The applicant is referring to an enrait. A the applicant is referring to an e mail, a copy of which im trying to track e mail, a copy of which im trying to track down. You have been mentioned in respect of this e mail, guote, mentioned in respect of this e mail, quote, with mentioned in respect of this e mail, quote, with the andy and alan e mail in the quote, with the andy and alan e mail in the case quote, with the andy and alan e mail in the case of quote, with the andy and alan e mail in the case of ward, which explicitly states that fujitsu can expressly change things without the Sub Postmaster cosmic authority. You asked Sub Postmaster cosmic authority. You asked them Sub Postmaster cosmic authority. You asked them as a matter of urgency to send you asked them as a matter of urgency to send you a asked them as a matter of urgency to send you a copy of that e mail, associated send you a copy of that e mail, associated e mails, and any other associated associated e mails, and any other associated information. You are asking associated information. You are asking them for a copy of those enraits. Asking them for a copy of those e mails, correct . Mac yes. Can we look e mails, correct . Mac yes. Can we lookat e mails, correct . Mac yes. Can we tookat the e mails, correct . Mac yes. Can we look at the e mail. Pol 0010 7650. Pol 00117650. Fruit of the page, please. Foot of the page, please. Quote, i spoke to you about a suspension, got a good understanding of the suspension, got a good understanding of the problem, mrward, the Sub Postmaster raised one that on a number Sub Postmaster raised one that on a number of Sub Postmaster raised one that on a number of occasions figures have appeared number of occasions figures have appeared in the czech line of his account appeared in the czech line of his account. He suspected those had been input into account. He suspected those had been input into his account electronically without his knowledge or consent. He is certain he has run checks or consent. He is certain he has run checks in or consent. He is certain he has run checks in the or consent. He is certain he has run checks in the correct way, he tells me they checks in the correct way, he tells me they must be properly cleared on the system me they must be properly cleared on the system to progress to a new account. The system to progress to a new account. He has made good about £10,000, account. He has made good about £10,000, and has not made good at about £10,000, and has not made good at about £11,000 of the shortages. He claims about £11,000 of the shortages. He claims that because of the abnormal nature claims that because of the abnormal nature of claims that because of the abnormal nature of these entries, the shortages have just not rolled over from one shortages have just not rolled over from one branch Trading Statement to another from one branch Trading Statement to another. Sub postmasteras from one branch Trading Statement to another. Sub postmaster as contract remain another. Sub postmaster as contract remain suspended, and then the reply on page remain suspended, and then the reply on page one, please . Screw up, please on page one, please . Screw up, please scroll up, please. These have to be accepted by the branch these have to be accepted by the branch in these have to be accepted by the branch in the same way that admittance my senses are. If we have to do admittance my senses are. If we have to do this, admittance my senses are. If we have to do this, the integrity of the system to do this, the integrity of the system will be followed. Fujitsu have system will be followed. Fujitsu Have The System will be followed. Fujitsu have the ability to adjust. But there have the ability to adjust. But there are have the ability to adjust. But there are actually rigorous procedures in place. The Sub Postmaster makes a casual accusation Sub Postmaster makes a casual accusation that is extremely serious to the accusation that is extremely serious to the business. As usual, he should be able to the business. As usual, he should be able to to the business. As usual, he should be able to produce the evidence for this, or be able to produce the evidence for this, orwithdraw be able to produce the evidence for this, or withdraw the accusation. So, this, or withdraw the accusation. So. That this, or withdraw the accusation. So. That is this, or withdraw the accusation. So, that is the e mail that you are after. So, that is the e mail that you are after. Yes . So, that is the email that you are after. Yes . So, that is the email that you are after. Yes . Carr so, that is the email that you are after, yes . Can we so, that is the email that you are after, yes . Can we go back to pol 0030 4439 . If we scroll down to page two, please if we scroll down to page two, please. Bottom of the page. Angela, please please. Bottom of the page. Angela, please find attached an e mail, which please find attached an e mail, which may please find attached an e mail, which may be the one referred to. I believe which may be the one referred to. I believe its which may be the one referred to. I believe its the one we have referred believe its the one we have referred to. I have records of a significant referred to. I have records of a significant number of documents, etc. Significant number of documents, etc would significant number of documents, etc. Would you like me to send everything to you . Top of the page. Thank everything to you . Top of the page. Thank you everything to you . Top of the page. Thank you for sending this e mail through. Thank you for sending this e mail through, very help. Helpful. In 2014. Through, very help. Helpful. In 2014. Youre through, very help. Helpful. In 2014, youre being told as well that remote 2014, youre being told as well that Remote Access by fujitsu was possible Remote Access by fuitsu was ossible. f, Remote Access by fuitsu was ossible. , ~. , i, Remote Access by fuitsu was ossible. , ~. , em possible. From andys note, yes. Did ou reveal possible. From andys note, yes. Did you reveal that possible. From andys note, yes. Did you reveal that to possible. From andys note, yes. Did you reveal that to the possible. From andys note, yes. Did you reveal that to the high possible. From andys note, yes. Did you reveal that to the high court you reveal that to the high court when you reveal that to the high court when you you reveal that to the high court when you give evidence . I you reveal that to the high court when you give evidence . When you give evidence . I dont believe i did. When you give evidence . I dont believe i did. Did when you give evidence . I dont believe i did. Did you when you give evidence . I dont believe i did. Did you forget when you give evidence . I dont l believe i did. Did you forget about this email. Believe i did. Did you forget about this email, too . Believe i did. Did you forget about this email, too . I believe i did. Did you forget about this email, too . Ithink believe i did. Did you forget about this email, too . I think i believe i did. Did you forget about this email, too . I think i have i this email, too . I thinki have raised that this email, too . I thinki have raised that internally this email, too . I thinki have raised that internally to this email, too . I thinki have raised that internally to get this email, too . I thinki have raised that internally to get to | this email, too . I think i have i raised that internally to get to the bottom of it, but i cant recall. You told the high court that she only learned about the facility to insert only learned about the facility to insert transactions about a year before insert transactions about a year before giving evidence. So far, we have before giving evidence. So far, we have looked at the December 2010, the january 2011, and april 2014 series the january 2011, and april 2014 series of the january 2011, and april 2014 series of e mails that are telling you about series of e mails that are telling you about that facility. Agreed . As i have you about that facility. Agreed . I have said, you about that facility. Agreed . 9. 3 i have said, the balance of transaction was the first formal notification that i recall being made aware of. Before that, there are a number of, and you are quite right, e mails will stop with andys i could did something, i cant read that the court, in terms of getting skin of that. I cant remember what, in terms of getting under the skin of that. There were things that just werent being evidence, and it was the balance of the transaction for me, that was the first time it was proof that it did exist, and it had actually been used. Im not sure exactly, when i gave my evidence of the trials, it was on the basis of what i understood to be true at the time. There will be, like December 2010, i didnt remember that thing, i will have forgotten about, but there will be things that are moved on from the information being shown, ijust on from the information being shown, i just cant on from the information being shown, ijust cant remember on from the information being shown, i just cant remember exactly what the outcome of that was. Truth . I just cant remember exactly what the outcome of that was. Why dont we take our the outcome of that was. Why dont we take our second the outcome of that was. Why dont we take our second morning the outcome of that was. Why dont we take our second morning breakl we take our second morning break they please. We take our second morning break they please we take our second morning break they please. Yes. Can i check the time precisely they please. Yes. Can i check the time precisely cosmic can we reconvene at 25 past. Studio . Examining Angela Van Den Bogerd, a senior director in the post Office Working with Sub Postmasters and puts mistresses, and the focus this morning has been on Remote Access, that fujitsu could have to the faulty horizon software. She was asked about an e mail in 2010 that revealed that fujitsu you tamper with accounts remotely without the post Office Branches knowing about it. She claims that she did not know about that e mail, or certainly doesnt remember seeing it. They will restart at around 12 25pm. In the meantime, some Breaking News for you and the scotland story today. We understand that the scottish conservatives are to launch a motion for a vote of no confidence in scotlands First Minister, humza yousaf. That is according to the partys leader, douglas ross. This after the governing snp ended their Power Sharing Agreement with the scottish greens, and is to lead a Minority Government at holyrood. This follows the decision to scrap the 2030 climate target and the weight responded to a review of gender services. Weight responded to a review of genderservices. Is weight responded to a review of gender services. Gender services. Is the coalition over . These gender services. Is the coalition over . These are gender services. Is the coalition over . These are pictures gender services. Is the coalition over . These are pictures of gender services. Is the coalition over . These are pictures of the| over . These are pictures of the scottish green over . These are pictures of the Scottish Green Party over . These are pictures of the Scottish Green Party coleader| over . These are pictures of the i Scottish Green Party coleader is Scottish Green Party co leader is leaving taos in edinburgh ahead of the cabinet meeting. Patrick harvie said this is a total u turn from recent days. In the last couple of hours, the Scottish First minister made the announcement to confirm that the Power Sharing Deal were scrapped. Lets have a listen. You, i believe that Going Forward it is in the best interests of scotland to in the best interests of scotland tr pursue a different arrangement. That is why, following a discussion from my cabinet this morning, i have formally notified Patrick Harvie and lorna slater that im terminating the bute house agreement with immediate effect. White like he was the reaction from Green Co LeaderPatrick Harvie. Latte the reaction from green coleader Patrick Harvie. The reaction from green coleader Patrick Harvie. ~. ,. Patrick harvie. We went to a meeting with the first Patrick Harvie. We went to a meeting with the First MinisterPatrick Harvie. We went to a meeting with the First Minister at Patrick Harvie. We went to a meeting with the First Minister at bute with the First Minister at bute house, with the First Minister at bute house, where he informed us of his decision house, where he informed us of his decision to house, where he informed us of his decision to end the Cooperation Agreement between the Scottish Government and the scottish greens. This is government and the scottish greens. This is a government and the scottish greens. This is a total u turn on his position this is a total u turn on his position from recent weeks and even days. Position from recent weeks and even days, where position from recent weeks and even days, where he reasserted his governments commitment to the Progressive Policies that are parties Progressive Policies that are parties had jointly agreed on, and the need parties had jointly agreed on, and the need to ramp up Climate Action in the the need to ramp up Climate Action in the face the need to ramp up Climate Action in the face of decades of political inaction, in the face of decades of political inaction, including from the snp government. fire inaction, including from the snp government government. Are scotland correspondent government. Are scotland Correspondent Lorna government. Are scotland l Correspondent Lorna gordon government. Are scotland Correspondent Lorna gordon is following the story from edinburgh. Some of the languages this morning has been quite acrimonious from people who have been parties in government for three years. Humza yousaf saying the benefits outweigh the compromise, that it is being terminated with immediate effect. Lorna slater and Patrick Harvie talking about this being an act of political paradise to appease the most reactionary forces in the country. Political cowardice. Humza yousaf saying hes ending the agreement. The snp now does not have a majority in the Scottish Government. They now have 63 msps, two short of a majority, and the greens have seven, which gave them a majority. They have lost that with this termination of the bute house agreement with immediate effect. However, the parliament that is designed to be consensual. It is designed for a Minority Government, indeed the snp in the First Administration under alex salmond governed as a Minority Government, but what it means is that they will have to reach out for other parties to get backing for their losses. There will have to be more compromises Going Forward with other parties. 50. More compromises Going Forward with other parties other parties. So, how did the powersharing other parties. So, how did the powersharing agreement other parties. So, how did the powersharing agreement in l other parties. So, how did the powersharing agreement in scotland, Power Sharing Agreement in scotland, without . What led to its collapse . Sophia explains. The powersharing deal between sophia explains. The powersharing deal between the sophia explains. The powersharing deal between the snp sophia explains. The powersharing deal between the snp and sophia explains. The powersharing deal between the snp and the sophia explains. The powersharing l deal between the snp and the greens in scotland has collapsed, so how do we get here . The arrangement was established in 2021, when Nicola Sturgeon was First Minister. It meant that the two leaders of the green party, and you can see them here, became members of the government. In 2023, humza yousaf took over as leader of the snp, but since then there have been several issues. They have caused a lot of Division Within the Scottish Government. The most divisive, climate policy. Last week, on the 18th of april, the Scottish Government announced that it would scrap its target of reducing Greenhouse Gas emissions by 75 by 2030. This is a significant u turn for the snp, because when these targets were first announced in 2019, Nicola Sturgeon, the First Minister at the time, said that these were the most stretching targets in the world, and she said that hers was the first government on the planet to declare a climate emergency. But, Climate Experts say that the Emergency Response never came, and for the greens, cutting emissions is one of the key objectives, a key policy area, so this is seen as a huge earlier for them. Today, the co leader of the greens, lorna slater, accused the snp of selling out future generations. She also said that humza yousaf can no longer be trusted. It appears that it had become impossible for the two parties to continue working together. 50, What Happens Next . Well, the snp will now form im Minority Government until the next Scottish Parliament elections in 2026. ~. , Scottish Parliament elections in 2026. ~. ,. , 2026. Within the last few minutes, a reminder that 2026. Within the last few minutes, a reminder that we 2026. Within the last few minutes, a reminder that we have 2026. Within the last few minutes, a reminder that we have heard 2026. Within the last few minutes, a reminder that we have heard from i 2026. Within the last few minutes, a l reminder that we have heard from the scottish conservatives that they are planning to lodge a motion for a vote of no confidence in scotlands First Minister, humza yousaf, as a result of the collapse of the Power Sharing Agreement. We will keep you posted on what that means shortly. That came from the party leader douglas ross. Now, labour says it expects to renationalise most Passenger RailServices Within five years if it is elected. Rail services in the uk have come into criticism for rising fares, cancellations and strikes, all affecting customer satisfaction. Here is labour� s louise haigh talking about the plans. Here is labours louise haigh talking about the plans. Labour will brina talking about the plans. Labour will bring private talking about the plans. Labour will bring private operators talking about the plans. Labour will bring private operators into talking about the plans. Labour will bring private operators into public i bring private operators into Public Ownership as their contracts expire. We will establish Great British railways, a single directing mind to control our railways. Yes, we are keeping the name, im afraid i was overruled and calling it rail britannia. We will set the strategy and objectives are Great British railways, and hold it to account on behalf of passengers anywhere. Unlike current ministers, i will trust the experts experts that dontjust come from the rail sector, as we know it can sometimes be a little. But external experts in providing excellent customer service. We will provide a best fair guarantee across the network, as tree mine has already managed to achieve, and we will all wedge the roll out the innovations your child here. Trainline. We will create a tough new Passenger Watchdog that will hold Great British railways to account by having the passenger, lawful performance and on the quality of the service they provide, because we believe the Customer Experience matters, and it matters to growing our railways. I will experience matters, and it matters to growing our railways. To growing our railways. I will show some pictures to growing our railways. I will show some pictures that to growing our railways. I will show some pictures that came to growing our railways. I will show some pictures that came in to growing our railways. I will show some pictures that came in earlier| some pictures that came in earlier when former President Trump was heading his court case in manhattan, which is where he is on trial over a Hush Money Case and a conspiracy to cover up a sex scandal ahead of the 2016 president ial elections. Lets listen in to the supporters who made him met him outside. Quite Epic Reception Forformer Him met him outside. Quite epic reception for former President Trump, who in recent days had not many supporters outside the court. Interesting that a few of them have turned up now. Now, lets return to the inquiry into the post of scandal and speak to our correspondent, who is following the inquiry in central london. A lot of the focus this morning seems to be on the Remote Access that fujitsu was able to have to the horizon system, and how much this key person in the inquiry knew about it . ~ ,. , this key person in the inquiry knew aboutit . , about it . Absolutely, because remember about it . Absolutely, because remember former about it . Absolutely, because remember former subpostmasters remember former Sub Postmasters accused the post office of a cover up, something that the post office and former executives strongly deny. As they came out of that inquiry room during the break, it is the loudest i have heard them in this phase of the inquiry in the past few weeks. Sub postmasters, many of them have been waiting for this moment, for Angela Van Den Bogerd, someone whose career at the post office has spanned decades, to give evidence. She personally handled many of their complaints about the horizon it system, and so they would think that she would have a lot to say about what she knew. What the Inquiry Counsel has been trying to piece together here, as you mentioned, is when she knew that information. She insists that when she received an e mail 2010, remember a key year, one of the Sub Postmistresses was sent to prison when she was pregnant, her case and conviction was in 2010. Angela van den bogerd said she missed that e mail. Angela van den bogerd also is gave evidence to a trial, That Famous Trial when alan bates took on the post office and one, and during that Trial Thejudge said that she had misled the court when she was giving her evidence. She was pressed about what she knew, when, and whether the statement she gave to mp5 during briefing notes or during her Witness Testimony during trials at the high court, whether that evidence and those witness statements were true. A lot of the answers that we have been hearing this morning, that the inquiry has been hearing, as i believe it was true at the time, i didnt recall that e mail, that was not part of my knowledge at that point, and its really up to the chair to determine whether those qualifications are good enough. find whether those qualifications are good enough whether those qualifications are tood enouah. . ,. Good enough. And we are expecting that intui good enough. And we are expecting that inquiry to good enough. And we are expecting that inquiry to start good enough. And we are expecting that inquiry to start up good enough. And we are expecting that inquiry to start up soon. Good enough. And we are expecting that inquiry to start up soon. It that inquiry to start up soon. It was interesting that at one point, Angela Van Den Bogerd was saying that the messaging and Remote Access kept changing from the post office, and there was a degree of frustration from the council saying that he is interested only in the facts. He pushed back quite hard . You did, it was a long back and forth when he was trying to get a response from her, there are so many qualifications in her answer is that, to your point, the Inquiry Counsel seemed quite frustrated. That point about the language and the messaging is is particularly important. I believe the inquiry has just started, so we can take a listen. And, if we look at the first page, you can and, if we look at the first page, you can see and, if we look at the first page, you can see we are now on the 9th of may. You can see we are now on the 9th of may, and you can see we are now on the 9th of may, and there is a whole chain sent to you may, and there is a whole chain sent to you by may, and there is a whole chain sent to you by andrew parsons, yes . If we can look to you by andrew parsons, yes . If we can look at to you by andrew parsons, yes . If we can look at the chain to see what it contains can look at the chain to see what it contains and can look at the chain to see what it contains and start on page six, please and if we scroll to the bottom, please. You will see an e mail from roderick please. You will see an e mail from Roderick Williams of the 14th Of AprilRoderick Williams of the 14th Of April to Roderick Williams of the 14th Of April to James Davidson of fujitsu, yes . April to James Davidson of fuitsu, es . , april to James Davidson of fuitsu, testjames. fl april to James Davidson of fujitsu, yes . Yes. James, could fujitsu yes . Yes. James, could fuitsu lease yes . Yes. James, could fuitsu please answer i yes . Yes. James, could fuitsu please answer the i yes . 193 james, could fujitsu please answer the questions below so that we please answer the questions below so that we can please answer the questions below so that we can respond to a specific challenge that we can respond to a specific challenge put to us by second sight in connection with the Mediation Complaint in connection with the Mediation Complaint. The e mail expressly states complaint. The e mail expressly states that fujitsu can remotely change states that fujitsu can remotely change the figures in the branches, without change the figures in the branches, without the knowledge of Sub Postmasters or the authority. He attached Sub Postmasters or the authority. He attached the e mail. The part of the email attached the e mail. The part of the email in attached the e mail. The part of the e mail in question is of the page, fuiitsu e mail in question is of the page, fuiitsu have e mail in question is of the page, fujitsu have the ability to impact branch fujitsu have the ability to impact Branch Records via the Message StoretBranch Records via the message store. But Branch Records via the message store, but im extremely rigorous procedures store, but im extremely rigorous procedures in place to prevent adjustments being made without prior authorisation. These controls form the core authorisation. These controls form the core of authorisation. These controls form the core of our defence if we get to that stage the core of our defence if we get to that stage. Mr williams then sets out a that stage. Mr williams then sets out a series of questions, can the post out a series of questions, can the post office out a series of questions, can the post office change Transaction Data without post office change Transaction Data without Sub Postmaster being aware of the without Sub Postmaster being aware of the change . Can fujitsu do so . If not, of the change . Can fujitsu do so . If not1wheres of the change . Can fujitsu do so . If not, wheres the for this conclusion . If so, how does it happen . Conclusion . If so, how does it happen . Why was this functionality built in . Happen . Why was this functionality built in . Why would fujitsu need to use this built in . Why would fujitsu need to use this functionality . What controls use this functionality . What controls are in place to prevent unauthorised use of this method of access . Unauthorised use of this method of access . When is branch data been impacted access . When is branch data been impacted in this way . In relation to the previous e mail, can it be used to change the previous e mail, can it be used to change ranch counts . What is the impact to change ranch counts . What is the impact of to change ranch counts . What is the impact of this change on Branch Counts . Impact of this change on Branch Counts . Will