Fiona, hello. Hi there, how are you . Im very well, thank you. And welcome back to newscast. Thank you. In previous episodes, we have had about 15 minutes. We have now got about a0 minutes, so. Good job the world is quite chaotic at the moment. There is plenty of Trouble Spots that we can look at. Before we go on a kind of tour around the world, ijust wanted to do a bit of your personal history. So what was happening in County Durham in the � 80s when you were a teenager and he decided that russian was the thing that you wanted to get into . Well, that was the period that actually, it is the subject of a Netflix Series at the moment about the Cold War and the bomb where we had the War Scare with the Soviet Union. The 1980s, there were several but the most memorable, at least from my perspective was 1983, when you just could palpably feel the sort of tension internationally. Even as a kid, teenager, in school in County Durham, it is thanks to the bbc, which we were watching religiously every day at teatime the nine you could really get that sense that things were happening geopolitically. And i was growing up not too far away from Air ForceBases Everything from harrier jump jets to other fighter planes that would kind of whizz across the skies. I was spending a lot of time and discussions at school. With people thinking there were no point sitting our A Levels because we were going to be blown up. There were occasions where i met with one of my elderly relatives who are called Uncle Charlie, he was actually my dad was my cousin, but in the north of england, everybody is rated. We would run into my Uncle Charlie down in the town in Bishop Auckland where i grew up, we do not have telephones. It was all the market days on wednesdays and saturdays where he banked on meeting your relatives and he had fought in World War ii. He had fought in World War ii. He had had some crazy experiences as a young man, being on a ship that was sung and he was blown to the surface in the mediterranean by death charges. He always had a fantastic tale to tell. He was worrying about the situation with the Soviet Union and we conversation in the marketplace and he basically said to me, you argue the languages, you should go off and try to figure out by the Soviet Union is trying to blow us all up. I thought myself, maybe i could, which was a bit of a Daft Idea because when you are a teenager in the north of england, russian wasnt taught in the local schools and how to get a job . I thought maybe i could become a translator, work on arms control, negotiation somewhere or other. I had that beenin somewhere or other. I had that been in my bonnet and decided i would go out to try and figure out how to study russian eventually. It seems like more practical thing than sitting and panicking wondering whether wed all fit in the cupboard under the stairs, kind of Harry Potter Esque in the event of a nuclear war. You might be too young to remember this but others who are listening to this might remember. They would have the public Service Announcement on the telly and then they would also send, because this is such primitive days, they would realfilms around schools for assembly, basically trying to inform you on what you should do an event of a nuclear attack. And it seemed to be mostly kind of rolling into a ditch and hoping it would pass over or crowding the cupboard under the stairs. I was member one of those where it was like, Unscrew The Door and use the doors turn it into and use the doors turn it into a little shelter and then had a under that. And who has got time to Unscrew The Door when sirens are going off . Sirens are going off . Exactly. A three minute sirens are going off . Exactly. A three minute morning, sirens are going off . Exactly. A three minute morning, dol sirens are going off . Exactly. A three minute morning, do i had the right screwdriver . My mac and did you have a Careers Teacher at school, when he said to them, this is what i want to do, they reacted to it . My Careers Teacher had set me off to try to sell Patio Doors on very early phone bank, one of those places who called everybody while they were having their tea and try to watch the news, ask them if they wanted Patio Doors or i had various jobs they wanted Patio Doors or i had variousjobs in they wanted Patio Doors or i had various jobs in sweet shops and restaurants and things like this. I remembertelling and restaurants and things like this. I remember telling one of my friends, we were sitting on a bench and said, i was thinking about doing theirs and they said, you are daft, you cant do that, nobody from here gets a job like that. I thought he would go to the united nations. So theres all of this kind of indicate thinking that was Going On in this period. My A Levels didnt really set me p A Levels didnt really set me up for this but i was pretty determined that i will try to study russian. Because i was growing up in the North East of england, my dad was a former coal miner. By this time, he had been working many decades in the local hospital as a porter. My Uncle Charlie had been a coal miner. He also told my dad on a later occasion that this is fast forward a few years, by the time of the miners strike, which was when i was about to go to college, that the durham Miners Association had some scholarships and bursaries for the kids of minors. And he thought that that would be one way i would be able to study russian. And indeed, my dad and my sister and i went on a bus to durham, to the durham Miners Association headquarters, a place called red hills, a parliament which was built by the miners back in the day. It is about to open again, by the way, hopefully as a unesco heritage site. We went to a man in an office and gave him this kind of idea because i had heard about this Language Course that i could take at the university of east anglia. He kind of let my Dad Record said, yes, sir. They gave this money, some of this money had been donated by the miners of donbas, of all things, in solidarity with the format of County Durham. They had links going back to the 1920s. Miners in ukraine in going back to the 1920s. Miners in ukraine in the going back to the 1920s. Miners in ukraine in the soviet going back to the 1920s. Miners in ukraine in the Soviet Union, | in ukraine in the Soviet Union, putting money in a ten that got sent to the uk, that you end up being able to go to study russian with . Being able to go to study russian with . Exactly, and i not russian with . Exactly, and i got £100 russian with . Exactly, and i got £100 after russian with . Exactly, and i got £100 after this russian with . Exactly, and i got £100 after this to russian with . Exactly, and i got £100 after this to pay i russian with . Exactly, and i| got £100 after this to pay for of my expenses. It was given to me in an envelope and i was just about come back and report and show my homework that id been studying russian. It was the most amazing opportunity and because of those chance encounters with relatives in the marketplace of Bishop Auckland. Everybody was really concerned about the whole prospects for nuclear year at the time. This is the time when sting had his song about to do the russians love their children too . There were threads the day after all of these series about nuclear armageddon. You think of the famous song, 90 99 red balloons. All of us are sorta coming back into vogue again because sadly, you know, here we are a0 odd years on. We are back to the same kind of perspective. You have other pop their ability to do things vladimir put you have other Pop Stars in the North East of perspective. You have other Pop Stars in the North East of england, santandersinging england, santandersinging england, Santander Singing about hypersonic england, santandersinging about hypersonic missiles. England, Santander Singing about hypersonic england, santandersinging about hypersonic missiles. There are plenty of other young there are plenty of other young people growing up in county people growing up in County Durham and elsewhere thinking durham and elsewhere thinking about the same dilemmas now about the same because we see vladimir Putin Durham and elsewhere thinking about tf we we durham and elsewhere thinking about tf we see Vladimir Putin going rogue in terms of because we see Vladimir Putin going rogue in terms of particular people around him in particular people around him in fattening nuclear response to fattening nuclear response to what is Going On in the ground what is Going On in the ground in ukraine. In a way it is even in ukraine. In a way it is even more dangerous now than it was more dangerous now than it was then, seemingly because we then, seemingly because we dont have that kind of set dont have that kind of Set Piece of interaction that we piece of interaction that we did have back in the Cold War. Did have back in the Cold War. I threw in many respects, i threw in many respects, whaley and us, that Everything Whaley and us, that everything has gone full circle from 1983, has gone full circle from 1983, 198a Round to 202a again. My 198a Round to 202a again. My mac the thing that makes it mac the thing that makes it scarier now is the lack of off scarier now is the lack of off ramps or rails or an emergency ramps or rails or an Emergency Press here, institutions and press here, institutions and structures that existed then . Structures that existed then . Thats right, or at least the lack of faith in those institutions. Thats one of the reasons why we have so much conflict now, we have simultaneously loved our confidence in international system as well as into many of the domestic systems. You have got, in the case of Adam Putin russia, someone who is kind of unchecked,in russia, someone who is kind of unchecked, in the power and in their ability to do things Vladimir Putin. Summer ob . It was. It was actually summerjob . It was. It was actually the summerjob . It was. It was actually the best summerjob . It was. It was actually the best Kind Summerjob . It was. It was actually the best kind of. Actually the best kind of summerjob in many respects. Most of my summerjob as well work in restaurants, cleaning in the local hospital where my dad worked as a porter and various other ragbag of the typicaljobs that most people in the North East of england have and sometimes peoples permanentjobs just to be very clear as well. Then it turned out the Durham County Council which i have to say they always trying to keep the international flag flying. Trying to keep the internationalflag flying. I mention these 1920s exchanges with the Donbas Region of the soffit union. Now one of the featured arenas for warfare in ukraine, as you rightly mentioned earlier. But they were always very says that it mentioned earlier. But they were always very says that it cultural exchanges. I had gone cultural exchanges. I had gone on a whole of them. Then, they on a whole of them. Then, they approached me and asked if i approached me and asked if i wanted to come as one of the wanted to come as one of the participants previously in participants previously in exchange to germany and France Exchange to germany and france and all over the place. To work and all over the place. To work on an exchange that they had on an exchange that they had been building up with the been building up with the region of the russian region of the russian federation. And so i get this federation. And so i get this great opportunity to work for great opportunity to work for that period of time is my first that period of time is my first real russianjob, helping real russianjob, helping real russian job, helping durham real russianjob, helping real russian job, helping durham real russianjob, helping Durham County Council in a Durham County Council in a series of exchanges with this series of exchanges with this Town And Region in russia, kind Town And Region in russia, kind of counterpart. It was pretty of counterpart. It was pretty is fascinating. It really gave is fascinating. It really gave me the job and i was really me the job and i was really grateful to be approached with grateful to be approached with this. I cant say that it was this. I cant say that it was the best above board in terms the best above board in terms of applications because it of applications because it turned out that they approached turned out that they approached me which has been a bit of the me which has been a bit of the same in some other positions same in some other positions rather than me really applying rather than me really applying for it. But i was delighted to for it. But i was delighted to be able to do this. I mean, it be able to do this. I mean, it really gave me a boost and a really gave me a boost and a lot of insight into how this lot of insight into how this Kind Exchange is worked and all Kind Exchange is worked and all the difficulties in getting the difficulties in getting them in motion. It was all done them in motion. It was all done without exchanging any money without exchanging any money because at this point with the because at this point with the Soviet Union and but they Soviet Union and obviously didnt have an exchange rate, a floating currency. So it was all kind of done you no, everybody paying their own way, setting up people for the visiting Soviet Russian delegation to stay with. We also try to do a kind of Business Event around this with the department for Trade And Industry and i felt fat enormously because we actually thought that they were going to bring over some real kind of man of such goods. This is such an area where there are quite famous linen and also manufactured products. Everybody brought people to people setup. Those people to people relationships do eventually pan out. I personally believe, i met a lot of great contracts that time, got a lot of manufactured products. Everyboc i brought manufactured products. Insights. I think russian everyboc i think|ht manufactured products. Everyboc i think russian insights. I think russian history has shown us that there history has shown us that there are a lot of ups and downs in are a lot of ups and downs in his relationships, it is always his relationships, it is always really rocky. There can ways be really rocky. There can ways be surprises. Behind the scenes in surprises. Behind the scenes in russia, there is a lot of russia, there is a lot of people who would like to have a people who would like to have a different set of relationships different set of relationships with the west. Putin himself is with the west. Putin himself is still convinced he can make still convinced he can make some grand Bargain Deal with some grand Bargain Deal with the west on his own terms. The west on his own terms. Especially ever ukraine and especially ever ukraine and perhaps a division of youre in perhaps a division of youre in again in the same way that again in the same way that happened after World War ii happened after World War ii when essentially churchill and when essentially Churchill And Stalin exchanged notes on Bits Stalin exchanged notes on bits of paper about divisions of of paper about divisions of europe during the Cold War. Europe during the Cold War. I dont think thats, you know, i dont think thats, you know, likely to be the outcome. Likely to be the outcome. But i think, you know, but i think, you know, things could change things could change quite rapidly in russia quite rapidly in russia in unexpected ways. In unexpected ways. And we have to be and we have to be ready for that. Ready for that. And having those contacts, those relationships and having those contacts, those relationships and that deeper understanding and that deeper understanding of the dynamics there of the dynamics there is going to be very important. Is going to be very important. And look, we can learn a lot from the mistakes that were made. You know, theres a lot of people casting blame here, there and everywhere for you know, how the relationships ruptured. I think fundamentally it comes down to the fact that were on very different pages. We might have had those people to people ties and found, you know, bonds of friendship on a Human Level on kind of basic life outcomes, but the structures of the systems were so different. The perspectives were very different, the worldviews were very different. And what we really kind of needed was more strategic empathy in the sense of really kind of understanding how putin worked and what makes him tick. I wrote a book about that with a colleague, you know, a few years ago when putin had already been in office for about ten plus years. I mean, hes been in there for a quarter of a century now, could be there, you know, longer. Its important to understand the worldview. He doesnt really understand ours either, to be frank. And so i think, you know, thats going to be, you know, very difficult. But its always important to try to get a deeper understanding of where people are coming from and where theyre likely to go, and to learn from the mistakes that weve made in, you know, how weve managed those relationships. Part of it gets down to the fact that, again, hes been in powerfor so long. And we keep, you know, obviously because were democracies, we keep doing this. We keep changing basically our political actors and, you know, many of the people who he interacts with, and we kind of lose his plot while hes always, you know, on plot. But thats such an interesting point that you make about sides not understanding each other. Im just wondering, in the modern era, how that can be the case when theres so much information about everyone, how you can, or how we can be in a situation where people have got to the top of their respective systems, dont have enough strategic empathy to understand their adversaries . In the case of biden, you know, currently sitting in the White House and future president s doing that and having their advisers and what was passing, who those advisers would be. Well, if you look at somebody like putin, the context is very critical. Putins not actually sitting in the kremlin. He actually has a multitude of of of offices that are clones, duplicates of his central office, and theyre scattered all over the place. Hes become notjust paranoid about, you know, his personal security, but hes always now kind of on the move among these different offices. Hes not in the kremlin. He doesnt have those advisers around him. He has his Security Services around him at all times. Those are the people that hes interacting with, his advisers, the kinds of people that, you know, we spent a lot of time looking into in kremlinology and thinking about what motivated them. Dont get access to him on a frequent basis, and then youve got to wonder what kind of information is he getting . And then how is he making the decisions . You know, During Covid he was extraordinarily isolated. And he had a few people in there bending his ear off all the time, who might have been the people who eventually persuaded him or allowed him to persuade himself to invade ukraine. So its a different, you know, context, a different setup. And you have to understand that. So if youre using the same set of information to predict what putin might do next, but youre not understanding the context in which hes operating, youre going to make mistakes. So i think, you know, Thats Kind of it. We sort of assume that weve all got the same universe of information, because its all out there on the internet and, you know. But actually we dont. And we all basically assess information in different ways based on our own context and our own worldviews and our own life experience. And so we have to really understand a lot about that experience and about, you know, what putin might know, what might, you know, shape his decision making. You know, just as a lot of people are spending an infinite amount of time trying to understand Donald Trump or Kamala Harris now, and, you know, all of The Other, you know, kind of people who might, you know, be instrumental here in the united states and what makes them tick. Now, you mentioned Sir Keir Starmer and you mentioned advisers. And i wont say that youre an adviser to keir starmer, but you are one of the reviewers that theyve appointed for their review of Security And Defence policy. Now, i wont try and get you to spill any beans about that because you want to keep that confidential. But what i never understand about these defence reviews and we have them every few years. And i dont mean this disrespectfully to anyone who reviews them, but i sometimes find as a journalist you read them and youre like, well, well, of course thats what the government has decided to do, because those are the threats in the world at the moment. What i never quite get is what were The Other options and the choices that were rejected in these things . So can you just give us an idea of some of the choices that the new Labour Government will have to make about Defence And Security in kind of big terms . Well, look, i can speak back to other reviews that ive done in the us and other contexts as well, because this review is just starting. Yeah, we dont want to get you fired already. Well, and i think its also because its not just going to be something that a handful of people are going to be engaging in. But i think, you know, the way that were talking right now, we have to understand that, the world has changed and, you know, all all of these reviews, and i think part of the problem is why they have to be done so frequently, is that any time that we try to project something right, as individuals. And i was again, i was talking about al, i am just trying to predict whats going to happen next. And we always do it from the Vantage Point that were standing in. So, i mean, most of the things that we make projections ahead are really just assessing what would happen if everything stays the same, you know, out five, ten years. And the problem is that nothing ever does because, you know, the very famous comment about, you know, events, dear boy, events, you know, coming from one of the previous, you know, british Prime Ministers that throws everything on its head. And i think you have to be constantly nimble enough to keep reassessing the situation. And you have to make sure that you dont make choices that lock you in to certain kinds of pathways that may be changed and kind of disrupted. So, you know, i mentioned before Vladimir Putin, hes been in power for 25 years. He could be in powerfor. God, another, you know, decade plus. But he also might not be, right . I mean, something might be happening just as we speak. Remember the death of stalin, the wonderful movie that kind of Everybody Kind of put their whole lives revolving around stalin one day literally just drops dead on the floor. Nobody knows what to do. We have to position ourselves, you know, ourselves or at large, whoever we are in the us, the uk or elsewhere, to be able to respond and have the capacities to respond to a whole host of situations, some of which might be predictive, as in the ai predicting what the next step might be and others that might be, you know, completely thrown off by events. And thats what the challenge is, is trying to see if you have the capacity for that. Now, ithink, you know, part of the problem in all of these, you know, exercises is what about the General Public . I mean, notjust the kind of people inside of the government. What do they really understand . Or what do we as part of the General Public as well . Because frankly we all are part of that, understand about the way the world has changed. And theres many things from a Uk Perspective that have obviously changed. The united states isnt, you know, the reliable partner in the way that many might have seen it to be, you know, for, you know, the last 70, 75 years, things have changed quite dramatically in the united states. And ive been, you know, my various jobs here at the brookings institution, and elsewhere, trying to grapple with that dynamics of internal domestic change as well. Just the international system has changed. Our domestic systems have changed, too. People have less faith in their domestic structures, and the united states is engaging in a massive civics lesson. It has a constitutional crisis, frankly, Going On, and trying to kind of decide, you know, where its going to head in the future and what kind of country its going to be. So thats happening at the same time. So the Uk Cant rely on the united states to frame the defence structure. Neither can the rest of Europe Or Nato in the way that it could before. Youve got a russia that seems to be on a totally different trajectory. But again, we dont really know how thats going to play out over time. Youve got all kinds of tensions Going On in the european context. I mean, post brexit, the uks relationships with European Countries are very different. The uk has new relationships thats trying to form within the context of different arrangements, like, for example, aukus, you know, with the australia and the united states and trying to think about how it continues to play something of a role outside of the nato and european space. Thats all weve got time for, for now. But i recorded some extra material with fiona hill, which you can hear in the Podcast Edition of newscast, which is available wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. Bye bye. Newscast. Newscast from the bbc. Hello there. The Weather Pattern looks quite complicated for the next couple of days, we have generally got low Pressure Close by with Weather Fronts. And we are picking up quite a bit of Humidity And Warmth off the near continent. So, that is going to really complicate the story somewhat with showers and thunderstorms will appear. But for many of us it is going to feel warm and humid for part two of the weekend, as we draw this air off the near continent. There will be scattered showers and thunderstorms, areas of cloud, but also some sunshine. The best of that sunshine will be across the southeast where we could be up to the high 20s celsius. Further north and west, more cloud around than what we had on saturday. And there will be some heavy showers and thunderstorms a bit more widespread through parts of the midlands, into wales, spreading further northwards as we go into the evening. High teens across the north, there we will see some warmth for the highlands and very warm in the southeast. It stays muggy and humid tonight, we see showers and longer spells of rain, some of it sundry, pushing across parts of the midlands, Northern England and into scotland. For all areas it is going to be a Warm And Muggy night. Warmer across scotland and we have had recently. Around 17 degrees in the southeast. Monday we have got Weather Fronts across the uk, it looks pretty mixed. A lot of cloud around, some mist and murk, heavy showers and thunderstorms across northern and eastern england pushing up towards scotland. We could see the odd thunderstorm developing further south as well, with more cloud around, less sunshine. Temperatures not quite where we like but still up to 25 degrees in the southeast. As we move into we start to see this area of High Pressure begin to exert its force across the country. That will try to push the Weather Fronts away. Tuesday is a mixed picture, at the moment it looks like we could see Weather Fronts bringing showers to western scotland, northern ireland, and there could be a few showers or it thundery downpours across the southeast. Some sunshine in between, temperatures a bit lower and we are picking up some cooler and fresher air from tuesday onwards, losing that humidity. So, 1722. And then from wednesday onwards this area of High Pressure it will exert its force across the country, it could bring a few showers into northwestern areas and low pressure over the near Continent Weather fronts, they will always later just south of the uk. There is a chance of some heavy showers or thunderstorms towards southern areas. But i think generally speaking, particularly the further north you are, it should start to settle down with increasing amounts of sunshine. Live from london, this is bbc news. Anger in israel over the deaths of six hostages in gaza. Trade unions order a general strike to try to force the government to reach a Ceasefire Deal with hamas. Protests are held in Jerusalem And Tel aviv, amid bitter criticism of the israeli government. They should have come back alive, they could have come back alive. We need a deal now. Hundreds of mourners attend funerals for two of the hostages recovered from gaza. Voting ends in Eastern Germany state elections. The far right alternative for germany party is expected to perform strongly. Well have Exit Polls shortly. And back to the old Rule BookEuropean Airports re introduce carry on liquid restrictions. Hello, im martine. The israeli Trade Union Federation has ordered a general strike for monday in an effort to force the government to reach a Hostage Release Deal with hamas. The Industrial Action will see ben Gurion Airport the busiest in israel closed to Take Offs And Landings from 8am local time. The families of hostages had pushed for the strike after the Israeli Army found the bodies of six hostages in a tunnel in rafah. The military said they were killed by hamas shortly before troops arrived. A Hamas Official denied this, saying they were killed by israeli fire. Thousands of israelis have been protesting injerusalem as we can see here and Tel Aviv in an effort