Transcripts For CNNW CNN 20240704

Of course, thank you for joining us. Cnn prime time with laura coates starts right now. Wow, that was a really fascinating interview. Weve all been leaning in to say what bill barr had to say. A lot of wanting to see what he had to say. Thank you for joining us here in washington, d. C. Its a Capitol On High alert tonight . Why . Because the nation is bracing for the arrest and arraignment of a former president. Should i say again the third time in three months. He will appear in Court Tomorrow as expected, and now his third indictment on charges of trying to overturn an election. And we learned on cnn the Secret Service has already done a walk through of the courthouse and Law Enforcement is even monitoring any potential threats. Meantime, everyone, were getting an early look at what his potential Defense Strategy might be including whats called this is not my term but the dilution defense, that he actually believed his own lies. Plus the suggestion hes about to throw his Legal Advisers under the bus. I cant imagine that happening. And just moments ago trumps former Attorney General bill barr spoke to cnn with his very first reaction to this new indictment. At first i wasnt sure, but ive come to believe that he knew well hed lost the election. What i think is important is the government has assumed the burden of proving that. The government in their indictment takes the position that he had actual knowledge that he had lost the election and the election wasnt stolen through fraud. And theyre going to have to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Which is a high bar, of course. Thats a high bar. Now, that leads me to believe that they were only seeing the tip of the iceberg on this. You think jack smith has more . Oh, yeah, some i would believe he has a lot more. Well, in the case of this magnitude one would assume he would. He also poured coldwater on the First Amendment defense that some trump allies have already been floating including i might add trumps own lawyer. As the indictment says, you know, he theyre not attacking his First Amendment right. He can say whatever he wants. He can even lie. He can even tell people that the election was was stolen when he knew better. But that does not protect you from entering into a conspiracy. All conspiracies involve speech, and all fraud involves speech. So, you know, free speech doesnt give you the right to engage in a fraudulent conspiracy. Just because youve said something does not mean that you are totally immunized and inoculated from ever being held liable for it. Well talk about those comments in just a few moments, but ive got an Amazing Group of legal experts standing by and dissect and walk through all of this. But first i want to begin with cnns Foreign Affairs correspondent paula reid. Paula, bill barr setup todays developments, so i want to know what do we now know tonight about what the plan is for trump to build a defense . Were starting to see the broad contours of a Legal Defense here, and theyre really trying to hit on this idea of infringing on his Freedom Of Speech and saying that here the government has allegedly criminalized political speech. But what that fails to take into consideration is the fact the indictment outlines exactly how this went so much further than just words and lays out the specific series of alleged actions the former president took. In the alternative theyre also arguing this good faithful leap, that the former president really believed that the election had been stolen. But prosecutors were one step ahead of him laying out in the indictment multiple instances where he either admitted that he did lose or that he had officials telling him that, in fact, there was no basis for these claims. Paula, stick around. We need your insight tonight. And right now also im joined by david aaron, a former federal prosecutor, sarah nelson, a cnn contributor and also former House Republican Investigative Committee council. And johnson is also here. And a former federal prosecutor as well. In other words, weve got us a panel, and im glad youre all here because the number one question i keep getting including at the Grocery Store today is whats up with this whole free speech discussion, the political Speech Notion . Is it true as long as trump was saying something about his views on the election that hes protected . What do you think . Well, yes and no. The Attorney General, the former Attorney General said it best. You can have free speech, you can say what you think, you can even lie, but you cant engage in a conspiracy to commit fraud and do other things that are crimes. Thats the line that jack smith is going to have to walk. I mean the indictment and thats a great point because, first of all, we already have laws that say if you say certain things youre going to be liable. If i were to try to hire a hit person with my actual words, because i said it im not protected. Defamation is part of it, threats a great example of it. Why is this having legs . Is it because people believe its so nuanced and political, and can he criticize people . I assume its people who havent read through the indictment and seen all the actions that are being alleged that former President Trump actually took to bring about his plan to overturn the Election Results. I mean if you look through what is being alleged, there are actually concrete steps like trying to line up the slate of fake electors. So theres certainly things beyond just words here in this indictment. So its the fact the words are part of the action. Its not like youre saying and i think maybe hes trying to avoid a First Amendment defense in many respects. Lays out the defense hes got every right and im paraphrasing here to say these things. The action youre talking about that, look, im putting these words in here to show you its part of the overall conspiracy. I think youre absolutely right. The special counsel saw this might happen, because its in some of the first pages where he lays out the fact donald trump had every right to talk about and even to lie about what he believed took place in the election. What do you think . Every time, you know, sort of significant legal news pops around trump, an indictment or some investigation, theres always a few days where theyre like test driving these really bad arguments. And then they eventually settle on one or two that may carry them through. Were in sort of the test driving phase. I think this is a crazy argument because i used to prosecute financial fraud cases. Theyre all about speech. When someone calls you on your phone, you get a spam call, someones trying to get your icloud credentials or get you to turn over your credit card, the fact theyre speaking to you is not protected by the First Amendment. Its a crime. Theyre saying its political. This is obviously a campaign. One of the things the lawyer said yesterday was this is a forward thinking about what aboutism. It was what if one day joe biden says something you dont agree with, is that going to be criminalized . This is different. It is. I do think the political character of the peach is whats giving this theory the legs that it has. I also think its a theory probably more of the public than at a judge or jury. And a lot of the public as well written and concise as it is a lot of people arent going to read it, theyre just going to hear about it. I think it will lead a lot of people to attach that First Amendment idea at least temporarily. Political in nature you dont have to all im going to say was political in nature meaning its coming from a politicians mouth . Correct, and its tied to a political process. Doesnt make it any less fraudulent or dangerous. Because its not made in the course of a financial fraud. I think for the public we should define what is political speech and why its different from regular speech. Political speech is probably and correct me if its the most protected and one we want to guard because youre saying something that has to do with an election or your opinion, or your assessment, or analysis or how you feel about it. He did that for sure, but he crossed the line. Yes, he can say what he wants but theres a line of criminality that none of us can cross with our words. Im hearing some amen nodding over here. Its not just words. The words were intended to produce actions, right, and i think calling this political speech i understand that. And there are real First Amendment issues surrounding criminalizing certain types of speech. I dont want to be flippant about it, but the First Amendment is designed to promote truthful public debate, right . And so its for that reason the First Amendment does not protect fraud, right . And yes, its political speech. But in this instance its not just like talking about his position on a bill or something, right . Were talking about speech aimed at overturning an election. Were talking about the most dangerous quoteunquote political speech, subverting our political process. Theyre throwing things against the wall in my estimation. Ill say the word allegedly to cover for all the Things Justin said. Let me play for a second what bill barr had to say in terms of how he felt about jack smiths integrity. Listen to this. Hes an aggressive prosecutor. Hes the kind of prosecutor in my view that if he thinks someones committed a crime, he hones in on it and really goes to try to make that case. Theres no question hes hes aggressive. But i do not think that hes a partisan actor, he, personally. And you think hes treated trump fairly here . I dont know hes treated from what youve observed, i guess. If from what ive observed. I dont know him, but i know a lot of republican lawyers who have worked with him over the years, and they told me hes a tough hardnosed prosecutor but hes not a partisan prosecutor. I mean that seems to belie some of what were going to be hearing of this language of the weaponization of government, and i think the word was deranged trump used on truth social. One of the nicer words. One of the nicer words, right, which is saying something. But, i mean, this idea the partisanship of a prosecutor, its always called into question whether they have some sort of axe to grind. We hear that all the time. Is there evidence to support this view . Absolutely not. Jack smith comes from the manhattan d. A. s office and career job in justice. Hes a classic of those institutions, staying within the ethical lines for sure. I just dont think theres any evidence of that at all. And i say the same about his team. Theres also another clip he talks about where hes asked about whos paying for it. Whos paying for the legal fees. Listen to what he had to say. I find that sort of nauseating. This guy claims to be a multibillionaire and he goes out and raises money from hardworking class hardworking people, small donors and tells them this is to defend america and to, you know, take care of the he didnt provide any significant support during the 22 elections and a lot of this money seems to be going to his legal fees. Hes nauseated. I want to ask you because youve been and received public defenders. As much as discussions are having about haves and have notes and a tale of two justice systems. Which i think is true. The have and have notes are in stark contrast in terms of what theyre able to access for justice, but that conversation doesnt really contemplate Something Like this. I think thats whats so interesting about this case is it took so long to even be brought. What everyone saw on january 6th was truly mindblowing, and it really is the most dangerous kind of act for our country to try to undo the Election Results of american voters. And so the fact that it took 2 1 2 years for there to be charges i think is really the surprising part. So thats been my answer to some of the questions about whether this is a political prosecution. But every day in Superior Court where both you and i have practiced we see the poorest people, the people with the least social capital prosecuted by the department of justice. And so for the rule of law to mean anything there has to be people with power and donald trump had the most power of anyone at the time who get prosecuted when they cross lines. I mean otherwise the rule of law doesnt mean a thing. I mean he was at the time theyre alleging some of these things the head of the Executive Branch of government whose job it is of course to enforce the law. Look at this civics lesson happening on a wednesday night at 10 00. Everyone, standby. Weve got more to talk about include more about these donations and what bill barr to say. I want to go quickly back to paula reid. Trump is expected to appear in Court Tomorrow. Were expecting the former president to come here to washington, d. C. To attend this hearing in person. Its unclear if were actually going to get to see him. Theres no cameras in federal court, and this particular courthouse is very custom to dealing with vips, people with security details. And you can easily drive into the garage underneath the courthouse and not be seen at all. But once hes inside the courthouse, hes effectively under arrest. He will be processed. We expect theyll take his fingerprints. We dont expect, though, hell have a mug shot. This is an issue they dealt with in manhattan and florida. The consensus is mug shots are used by Law Enforcement if someone goes on the lam, but Everybody Knows what former President Trump looks like. Now, the hearing itself will be pretty quick, procedural. We expect hell hear the charges that have been filed against him, have the opportunity to enter a plea, and this hearing also is not going to be before judge chutkan. Shes the one that will oversee this case in a possible trial. Instead this will be before a magistrate and likely have another date on the calender for his first hearing before a trial judge. In case your wonder, yes, paula reid does live in this News Building and reports news constantly all the time. Were going to go back to the table. The viewers are asking questions. One of the questions theyre asking is, look, can he serve if hes convicted . Yes. Yes. Theres the answer. The answer is yes, america. Number two, if he were to go behind bars for any of these alleged crimes could he be elected from prison . Yes. Yes. Wow. Go back to the eugene debbs case. Wow, thats where we are. Its surprising to people and i want to unpack a little more. It might surprise people to know when we talk about all the different kwoifgdss it takes to get hired in most professions and the resume building and all the things going on. When it comes to the presidency the constitution governs. And it didnt contemplate perhaps this scenario. Contemplate a little bit why the constitution doesnt say, no, he cant run if this happens . Maybe it wasnt contemn plated as a possibility. There is in the Fourth Amendment some provision for disqualification on very narrow grounds related to insurrection, but thats about it. Otherwise hes qualified based on age. 35, 14 years and youve got to be a natural born citizen. We were talking about i was born in germany. I wrote to Secretary Of State when i was in the eighth grade, and he said you can be president because your dad was in the military and you were a citizen born abroad. Like john mccain. Well, when i turn 35 i dont know why you guys are laughing. Question number three. Number three is if trump was elected and this is a question that came up early, of course, in his own initial presidency in his first term could he pardon himself . I dont think anyone knows the answer to that question because its never happened before. No president has attempted to pardon himself. No president has been charged formally with a crime. But i do think its possible that we could see President Trump sworn in behind bars and then pardon himself to walk out of prison. Can i adone note to that . Because i totally agree as a theoretical matter, legal matter its unclear, but as a practical matter whos going to stop him . The statute of limitations would run on the offense while hes in office. His own Justice Department is not going to do it. I dont think anyone else would have standing to even raise this issue potentially. So i think that would be the bigger problem even in the abstract. I also think his republican rivals would have to take a pledge if they were lets Say Nikki Haley was the nominee, i believe theyd have to take a blood oath on this if it was somebody else and trump was found guilty and has to go to jail, hed have to pardon. Were hearing that, and desantis as well. That is the litmus test on what you would do next although this is different scenario and different world we live in today. Everyone, standby because next were going to look at the judge whos presiding over trumps case including her experience with january 6th defendants. Plus were breaking out the ven diagram, yes we are, to show you the variety of reactions from his 2024 rivals. And well speak with one as well. And coming up, an exclusive interview. 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Get back to better breathing. Ask your doctor about fasenra. But, you also cant leave covered in hair. With bounce pet, you can cuddle and brush that hair off. Bounce. Its the sheet. So the federal judge is going to preside over trumps January 6th Criminal Case is judge tanya chutkan, who, by the way has already overseen dozens of cases against january 6th rioters. Paula reid is back with me now. What do we know about her background . Shes an experienced federal judge. Hes been on the bench since 2014 when she was nominated by thenpresident barack obama. Shes a remember foller federal public defender. And as you can see she was confirmed 950 by the senate, and she has been overseeing january 6th cases, dozens of them so shes very familiar with the Subject Matter theyre going to cover here. So how has she handled some of those cases because many judges on the bench right now especially in d. C. Have had to draw some of these cases, assigned some of these cases. None of them are a stranger to that. What has she been saying . This is tough judge. Statistically shes issued some of the harshest sentences. Nearly a dozen times shes gone beyond the sentences recommended by prosecutors, and shes overseen dozens and dozens of these. And shes consistently been the toughest judge when it comes to sentencing. I mean 31 defendants already theyve sentencedch they exceeded recommendations from the prosecutors nine times. Thats pretty significant. Exactly. She is tough. If you had to pick a judge, if the Defense Attorneys for the former president were looking at the lineup she probably would have been at the end of the irlist because its different from what we saw at the maralago case where you saw a judge already appointed. Theyre going to have the same level of scrutiny. Judge cannon and chutkan what theyre going through. Lets talk about trump specifically with this particular judge because she has referenced him or referenced at least the idea and intimated about him through the course of rulings and sentencing. Yeah, he tried to with hold certain documents from the time he was president from the January 6th Committee. This was something litigated and she wasnt having it. This is one of the most famous quotes from that opinion. President s are not king and the plaintiff is not president. Those are one of the really significant rulings as the January 6th Committee was trying to obtain evidence and the former president was throwing any privilege he possibly could trying to see what would stick. And when it came to her, things were not sticking and she ruled against him. It was one of the more significant blows that she suffered during the January 6th Committee investigation, not with jack smith. And of course she referenced at one point for one person one person did not go to the capitol out of a love for our country, he went for one man, obviously talking about donald trump. Well see what happens from here. As you mentioned tomorrow tomorrow is in front of a magistrate, not her. Well hear more in the motion. Thank you, paula. And heres a question, everyone, for all of you out there. Should voters know the outcome of all and i mean all of these cases before, well, the voting begins . Were going to ask one of trumps 2024 rivals next. Plus Barack Obamas private warning to President Biden about what is coming in his battle for reelection. The chase Ink Business Premier Card is made for people like sam, who make everyday products, designed smarter. Like amart coffee grinder, that orders fresh beans for you. Oh, genius for more eakthroughs like that i need a breakthrgh card. Like ours with 2. 5 cash back on purchases of 5,000 or more. 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Com on the campaign trail, look, the reactions from trumps rivals to his now third indictment, well, lets just say theyre wildly different. And for that ive put together a ven diagram because what else would we do this evening . On one side, of course, youve got the rivals who are defending trump and yet theyre baselessly claiming, by the way, this is Joe Biden Weaponizing the government. Whos in that section of the ven diagram . Im talking about ron desantis and vivek and of course tim scott who has suggested, by the way, candidates should pledge to pardon trump. On the other side of this ven diagram you have the obvious reactions from rivals who, well, theyre no fans of donald trump, and theyve made it known. Chris christie, Asa Hutchinson with whom were going to speak in just a moment, and also will hurd who said trump is running for president maybe to run away from jail. And look, youve got in the middle this blurry section. Things get a little bit blurrier, shall we say. Nikki haley she has condemned the first indictment but now seems a little exasperated by the, quote, distraction. Pence, too, he denounced the first one but in this one says anyone who puts himself over the constitution should not be the president of the united states. And then seemed to suggest trumps, quote, his word, crack pot, unquote, lawyers share the blame. Then youve got doug burgham, everyone, doesnt like to talk about the indictments at all. And Frances Suarez jumped into the race after one of trumps indictments that happened in his own city, but he suggests hed pardon trump to heal the country. Joining me flow one of trumps president ial rivals, arkansas governor Asa Hutchinson. Im excited to hear your particulars of the nomination. One thing thats been suggested voters ought to know the outcome of these cases before the voting begins. The calender might not cooperate with that, but is that the right thing to do, that voters would be able to know whats going to happen . Sure. The more information to the voters, the better. And so in an ideal world these cases would be concluded and the voters would have all the information they need. But as a practical matter the criminal docket is not going to allow that to happen. Voting will take place in iowa and New Hampshire before these cases are concluded. And so it puts the voters in a terrible situation. And thats not good for them. More information would be better. Wed like to see them to have that. But the fact is candidates whos running for 2024 nomination on the republican side, theyve got to take a stand on this. Either youre for accountability and the rule of law or youre for donald trump and chaos. And i think that you cant take the middle ground on that. In this case whenever you look at what happened on january 6th, ive been clear donald trump is morally responsible for that. You have been quite clear, but also its clear people are not necessarily budging. I cant imagine anyone had on their strategist bingo card. You mean ive got an opponent who now has three indictments and two impeachments, and i cant use any of it . I cant capitalize or seize on any of it . Why do you think there is that hesitation . Im using hat term generously here. Why is there outright refusal in most instances to try to use this even as a part of Ones Campaign to talk about the issues that i know you also want to actually discuss . Well, thats what we do. I just came back from New Hampshire, and the voters there are asking me about affordable housing. Theyre asking me about the challenge of the economy and high interest rates, and so thats what were talking about on the campaign trail. Now, the fact is that theyre overwhelmed with the information on the trump charges. And its going to be an issue in the campaign. You think about the charges and whether hes found guilty or not guilty is another issue. But here the special Prosecutor Says that he actually knew he lost the election, but he tried to overturn the election anyway. And the defense is that, well, he actually believed he won the election. If you believe the defense and youve got a candidate who wants to be president whos delusional. And if you believe the Special Prosecutor that he knew that he lost the election and tried to overturn the anyway, then its criminal conduct. And so its going to be a campaign issue. I want to get on the debate because this issue will come up in the debate. And the difference between the candidates and their approach to this and how theyre handling this and rule of law will be an issue in that debate that comes up in milwaukee in august. You certainly describe the Constant Rock And A Hard Place or the lesser of two evils, and im not sure which one keen voters want to attach themselves to. You do want to be on that debate stage. Im sure youve heard executives joined in efforts on that debate. So far hes saying hes not going to give oxygen to the other candidates. Whats your response . Well, whether hes there or not its going to be a very good debate. Ill be prepared either way. If hes there, theres a lot to talk about. If hes not there, just think about the debate between the candidates and theres differences in policy. Were going to talk about real issues people care about in our pocketbook. If you want me to be on that debate stage, aasa2024. Com is hw people get there. Lets talk about that road to getting there because theres some interesting warnings that president obama actually privately gave to President Biden. And one of the comments he made apparently was not to underestimate trumps political strength. By jumping into the race and so many of the candidates who were hoping to best him in spite of the polling we are seeing, and it is still early, is there any underestimation about his political strength and the scope of the base that supports him still . Did you underestimate him . I dont think i underestimated him, but the hold that he has and the loyalty of the base and how theyve accepted everything that hes said, they have followed him to the ends of the earth and its to their detriment whenever you look at the fact hes misled them. But theres still that loyal bond there, and i dont know whats going to break it. And i acknowledge hes at a very high level and youve got other candidates in single digits. Well see where this goes, but this is a fight for the soul of our Republican Party and the future of our country. And its a fight worth having. And thats why i sense that in iowa and New Hampshire, these early states people are paying attention and they care about this. And they want to look at the alternative candidates. They want to look at the debate and make a good decision, so it is wide open. It is early, and we cant and this is the most unpredictable political environment ive seen in my lifetime. And so lets see how it plays out. Lets give the voters a chance, and all the facts we hope will be on the table in regard to this case, the pending cases that are against donald trump. By the way, governor, really quick. If for some reason you do not find yourself on the debate stage or qualifying in that run, would you consider running as a Third Party Candidate . Well, i want to run as the republican nominee. Thats the only thing that im considering. I expect to be on the debate stage, and i trust that everybody will help get me there, and thats the only goal that i have right now is to be on that debate stage. Governor Asa Hutchinson, thank you so much. Thank you. Great to be with you. Thank you. Lets get back to the table here, and i ask you the same question in terms of the timing. We already know the calender. Im not going to put up another ven diagram to suggest. We know the calender is not really on the same side of getting everything resolved in maybe the schedule you like. Do the voters deserve to know the outcome of these cases . Is that part of what ought to be contemplated . Youre nodding. Absolutely. I think this goes to the very heart of our democracy of this republic and whether or not it sustains itself going forward. And i know that might sound like hyperbole, but its not. Donald trump has been indicted now for the third time. This new indictment goes to the fact like asa said either hes deluded or crazy and everyone believes what he told them it wasnt true or hes diabolical and unhinged and he tried to thwart democracy and get his supporters and his Vice President to do things that were unlawful and unconstitutional. So either way its bad, so people should know. Well, as a legal matter they actually do. The speedy trial act, which governs how judges are supposed to set trial schedules, includes specifying its not just the defendants interest in a speedy trial but the public has an interest in a speedy trial, twentytwo. About a month ago in politico we actually did a poll coming over the indictments and we asked people should the trial occur before the republican primary or the election . Almost two thirds said it would occur before the general election. Almost half of the republicans. If theres one case in particular you ought to know the outcome of which one is it . Its this one. It shows how donald trump behaved as president during an election. There couldnt be anything more important than that. And so for the American People to have the opportunity to watch the evidence against him, to see his defenses, to evaluate him potentially as a witness, i think thats really important. Do you agree . I think so. This is the nature of the charges are fundamental to the job description. Everyone, thank you so much. Well talk about all this ahead. Michael cohen joins cnn on whether he thinks the coconspirators may flip against trump. And up next my exclusive interview with the entire family of travis king, the u. S. Soldier who mysteriously fled over the line, they say, into north korea and might very well be currently detained. Why they noticed some strange signs before he walked across the border. Huh, huh, so did their dog roger. Gain scent beads keep even the stinkiest t Stuff Smelling fresh. Light Acoustic Music Plays Eagle Screeches energetic music plays there he is its right there oh, hes straight ahead. Hes straight ahead. Straight ahead. Go go go. Cover more ground in the kia sportage turbohybrid. Kia. Movement that inspires. Subways now slicing their meats fresh. Thats why subways proffered by this champ. And this future champ. And if we proffer it, we know youll proffer it too. Hes cocky for a nineteen year old. Well, the mystery is deepening tonight. The one about the u. S. Soldier who ran across the border into north korea. Now, in just a few moments im going to speak with travis kings entire family in their first interview since his detention. But first the State Department is now confirming north korea did reach out to the United Nations command at the Demilitarized Zone in the last 48 hours but says it was not a substantive call, and they dont see it as progress. Now, youll recall back on July 10th King was released from the south korean detention facility. He was expected to fly back to the u. S. Just a week later. But after king passed through security, he apparently told his staff that his passport was missing. He was then escorted back outside as far as we know. Then the next day he had reservations for a Joint Security Area tour, joining other tourists it seemed as they went into the dmz that separates the north from the south. Now, during that tour he apparently broke off from the group and ran off across the border into north korea of all places and has not been hard from since. The United Nations command says that conversation with north korea began just a few days ago on july 24th. And that gets us really to where we are right now. Tonight kings family continues to search for answers, any answers about his welfare, his whereabouts. And they say they just want to see their loved one brought back home safely. Kings uncle, myron gates along with kings sister join me now in an exclusive interview as well as another relative, myrons wife as well as travis grandparents. We have conversed in the past. There are so many unanswered questions, myron. Its been two weeks already since travis they say ran across the border into north korea. I have to know what this has been like for your family to be getting the reports like this, and then i understand radio silence. Its been very, very devastating to my family and i. And for it to be two weeks we feel like we should know more right now as whats going on. Is he safe . We dont know nothing. Do you know right now where travis is exactly . Is he alive . Is he in the custody of north koreas government . Is he somewhere detained . Do you know sitting here today where he is . Sitting here today i dont know where he is. The only thing i know is theres a picture of him on the news from the backside, and theyre saying travis king ran across the border. Thats the only thing i know. I dont know nothing else. So you dont even have confirmation it sounds like that that in fact was your relative, was travis your loved one that even crossed over that border . No, i dont. I dont have i dont know anything. The only thing i was told was that theyre talking to them, and they acknowledged that they have him, i guess. But i still dont know like if thats if hes even really over there. I dont know if he is over there i dont know. Its frustrating. Frustrating, of course. And this is your brother, and as you hear myron talking about i wonder when was the last time you spoke with him. As we talk a little bit about the time line the world seems to understand is he was supposed to get on a flight to return to the united states, did not go on that flight, ended up then in some sort of a tourist area to try to do a tour to cross over the border. Had you spoken to him before that . When was the last time . As far as like recently, i guess i heard from him around july 15th. But me personally i dont believe thats him talking to me on messenger. Theres a lot of reasons why. I know my brother. I dont know. It just brings tears to my eyes. I dont know. Its frustrating. Hes my baby brother, so, yeah. Why dont you think that it was him communicating . I know you say you hadnt spoken to him, put there was some communication, right . Some messaging exactly. Hes not the type. Every time every time i reach back out to him, like, you know were 15 hours apart, so at nighttime its daylight there. So i work third shift well, i was working third shift and at the time im like call me and hes like i cant talk now, i cant talk now and weird stuff and stuff thats not him. Like the rat videos, it was all like suicidal attempt stuff that i feel like personally leads up to this where im his older sister so i personally feel is hes innocent. We dont know if he ever was, you know, in their custody to begin with because in all actuality we lost contact with him when he left fort something texas. Is it fort worth . Something texas, it start with an f. Sorry, but we lost contact with him when he went to korea. Its like he had an american phone allegedly, which he really did and he lost it. And thats basically how we cut ties. So i was asking my mom do you talk to him, have you heard from him, holiday after holiday after holiday shed just wait by her phone and hope and pray he had called. But i guess well all get something from his messenger, and that doesnt add up because hes never done social media. And first and foremost hes going to reach out to our mom and let him hear his voice. Hes not the type to disappear. Where is your mother right now . Actually i really dont know. Ive been calling her, so i dont know. This must be extremely tough for her. And what you said to her before, myron, i know youve communicated with her. This is she didnt come, so i dont know. I know the first time she got on the news, she barely could put descendants together because this is really, really hard on my mom. That is her baby boy. His roma is still in her house. I tell my mom all the time, mom, you have this big house. She wont downsize her house, that is her baby boy. She made it where, if we need somewhere to go, we could go back home. You, me, myron, the family, the american public, we are asking the questions of why, what does not add, up for the answers. Does the government given you any indication they know more information . For example, especially this we know as much as you know. That strikes me as odd, that you would know as the Family Members very little about his whereabouts, and what happened. I have to be direct here, do you have any reason to believe travis would have intentionally run over the border into north korea to defect in that way . No. He had no reason to do that at all. Had he been angry with the government, the military . Had he been angered the government, the military, anything like that . No. No. I understand the Vice President Vice President Kamala Harris he is quiet, to himself. He doesnt deal with people. Ive been calling the d. C. Office, the congressmans, senators. We get no answers. Nobody has youve talked to are no Vice President Kamala Harris is supposed to be in kenosha tomorrow, and i understand you have had contact with staff members, members of congress. What do you want the administration, the president to be doing . Are they doing anything as far as you are presently right now aware to help find your brother, your loved one, your nephew, his grandson for his grandparents back there . Do you know if they are doing anything right now to bring him home . Now. No. We wish they would come to our house to talk to us and let us know something. Or let me get him, because im his big sister at this point. Let me go get him. Im his uncle. Your familys working with an outside group. Are they working with anyone besides the u. S. Government to try to get those answers . Is anyone else involved . Working with a Nonprofit Organization called richardsons okay. He is a negotiator. He is going to help our family. I understand youve been contacted as well by the half they been able to get in touch with you to help . Yes. His parents, bright and sunny, theyve been giving us a lot of advice, and we really, really appreciate them. Lets say, if he were listening right now, and knowing you were fighting for him, that you are looking for him, your family loves him so much. He is important. He matters to you, to his family in particular. Of course, as a member of our armed services, the entire nation is watching to understand what has happened here. What would you like to say to him if you were listening . I love you, brother. Something ive been sending out on messages. I know if it was you, i love you. I want you to be home, you know . I really want you to be home, the same way you left. I want you to come back. If not, even healthier. All of these allegations and stuff, i dont believe them. Myron . Im a big sister, so. I always know. I just cant believe it. I would say, nephew, we love you, we are standing here strong, and we are going to continue to fight for you. We are not going to stop until you come home. A lot of questions are left unanswered. This seems like the beginning of the story, and i hope that you get the respect of the answers soon. Thank you for joining us. We will keep thank you. I am laura coates, everyone. And that was difficult to hear. Thank you for watching tonight. Everyone, up next, Michael Cohen is going to john Alison Camerota on this new indictment and Donald Trumps coconspirators. Plus, Geraldo Rivera joins live on the executives meeting with trump after his indictment. Dont miss it. Do it all. With up to 13 camera v views. And the z71 offroad package. You ok . Yeah. Any truck can help you make a living. This one helps you build a life. Chevy silverado. Kayaking is my thing. Running is awesome. But hemoderate to severe eczema would make her skin so uncomrtable. I was always so itchy especiallyhen i was hot. Now my skin doesnt itch as much. Now were staying ahead of her eczema. Theres a power inside all of us to live our passion. And Dupixent Works On The Inside to help heal your skin from within. 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Plus, our resident Fact Checker Daniel Dale goes through the 45page indictment tonight to break down every one of the election lies laid out in it. Former Attorney General bill barr tells Kaitlan Collins tonight that trump knew he lost the election. At first, i wasnt sure. I have come to believe that he knew well he lost the election, and what i think is important is the government assumed the burden of proving that. The government, and theyre tightening, takes the position that he had actual knowledge